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"Rajavin Parvai" - Part 2 - Chord Analysis
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S.SAMPAT
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 27, 2007 5:59 pm    Post subject: "Rajavin Parvai" - Part 2 - Chord Analysis Reply with quote

Read "Vaghulabharanam as Charukesi

bye for now

S.Sampat
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Vatsan
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 28, 2007 9:55 am    Post subject: Raajavin paarvai Reply with quote

Sampat,
Thanks for your informative post. Please go ahead and get into the details of chords. Would be very beneficial.
One question, in the line "pon mAlai mayakkam", R1 is used. Does that not make it "Hanumathodi" scale ? The humming though touches R3/G1 which makes it sound like Natabhairavi. Please do clarify. Ofcourse, MSV's thodi will not sound like thodi Smile pEsuvathu kiLiyA...pallavi is in Hanumathodi scale for instance. The charanam seems to shift to Chakravagam, a shift.
Same is the case with 'nAnandri yAr varuvAr' in 'mAlayitta mangai'. The pallavi is in Abhogi, MSV just needs to yawn and out will come out a melody in Abhogi. The charanam is in Valaji, a grahabedam of Abhogi. He did it all in '57 itself.
With respect to Natabhairavi, there was this 1-2 year period where he would use if for sad solos/lamen like ninaikka therintha manamE, yAr sirithhAl enna, mayakkamA kalakkamA. Incidentally, as was narrated to me by PBS, during the recording for idayathhil nee, PBS mentioned to MSV about a Rafi melody composed by Shankar - Jaikishen, yAd na Aye in dil ek mandir and sang the pallavi for him. Immediately MSV used that as an inspiration and came up with 'yAr sirithhAl enna'
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S.SAMPAT
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 28, 2007 12:03 pm    Post subject: Rajavin Parvai Reply with quote

Dear Vatsan,

Thanks for ur reply. As far as the film songs are concerned, the trickiest thing is how u take the adhara sruthi to judge a raga. My suggestion would be fix up ur own adhara sruthi ( say C or 1 kattai), then try to sing the film song. Accordingly identify a raga. If u do that normally u will get P S R2 for Ra jaa vin which spells out the raga as Natabhairavi. But the interesting point is if u use the Pachamam of Natabhairavi as Shadjam using model shift (Sruthi Bhedam) you get Thodi!!! How is it? For heavensake let us not call thodi though the scale is thodi. Instead we can say sindhubhairavi though actual arohana and Avarohana is different and real sindhubhairavi takes all the notes except Anthara Gandharam (G2). Hence u can say "Rajavin Parvai" is Natabhairavi with some variation leading to charukesi. Kindly I request you to see my reply Mr.Sadheesh and Mr.Viswapriyan with respect to the song "Malai Pozhuthin Mayakathilae" elsewhere in this forum. Quite interesting

I will get the details of chord in a day or two as i am busy with my official work. Hope i have clarified. Awaiting your reply. This kind of encouragement only keeps me writing more. Once again thanks a lot.
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S.SAMPAT
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 28, 2007 9:12 pm    Post subject: Chords - Rajavin Parvai Reply with quote

Dear Mr.Vatsan,

Come On . Let us plunge into the ocean of MSV. As mentioned earlier, "Rajavin Parvai " is a wonder of wonders.

Let me start from the Prelude by P.Sushila ( I admire her more than Lata). You can see the genius of MSV here.

Though the song is in Am ( Natural minor Scale -Natabhairavi) , the Prelude starts in Em.
The chords used in the Prelude are

Em/C/B. ( Another chance for u to see the genius at work)

Technically C and B are the Submedient and Dominant notes of the scale Em and in the natural minor, normally only chord Bm will be used. Only for Em Harmonic minor(Kiravani) chord B shall be used. But the genius he is, MSV used after the end of the melody (in Em Natural - Natabhairavi) "MMMM ---, ah ahhhha hahahaa , aha haha haa (PS) " the Dominent chord B ment for Harmonic minor (Kiravani) - Hats off. Pls wait for the surprise.

After the chord B, alongwith the horse beat the following chords are used

C/F/Bb/Caug/Am

and what a way to enter into Am scale. Real genius. After the interlude you enter into the song with the following chords

Am/G/Am/F/Em (PS upto Maalai Mayakkam)

For Raaniyin Mugamae Rasipadhil sugame----- following chords are used

G/F/A/Am

Again TMS will sing Raajaavin Parvai.

Now, Brova, MSV will bring u to the tip of ur seat for a surprise. Iyyo!!! For the 3rd time the melody"Raajaavin Parvai" in chorus will be in Cm scale. Sir. we have to listen to it consciously to believe it.

The chords used for the entry into Cm are as follows

Bbm/Em/F

This will be followed by the melody in chorus in Cm scale (Natabhairavi).

The genius has to come to Am for the original melody.!!! How to do that? MSV will use the same technique he used earlier to come from Em to Am . Yes u have guessed. The following chords are again

C/F/Bb/Caug/Am

Wait .wait.wait. The chorus is in Cm scale then how to use the chord C as mentioned above. What a way to enter into chord C.

G the dominant note for the scale C is common for both Cm and C. MSV would have used the notes G A B (not chords) as interlude to enter into chord C. (Ivarukku western arrangement theriyaadhunnu palaper sollittu thiriyarangae. Ennatha solla!!!). Surprise has not come to an end sir.

After entering into Am, the melody "Raajavin Parvai" will be repeated for the fourth time in vioin with note C sharpened (resulting the melody in Charukesi (manmadha leelaiyai vendrar pugzhl) instead of Natabhairavi). Then the charanam begins with "Asaiyil vilaaindha" with tabla accompaniment for the first time. They chords used are the same as for "Raaniyin Mugamae" and the same pattern of melody (5th time??? ) in chorous (Charukesi again) follows for the next charanam also. What a song!!!!

Please let me know if my analysis is too technical and boring Rolling Eyes . If u r open then i will restrict myself to general analysis without any technical details. But only technical analysis will do proper justice to feel the genius of MSV. It is my personal view. Friends, I am waiting for your response.

I am very much thankful to my brother-in-law Mr.Seetharaman, a guitarist, who helped me in identifying certain chords. Though i am a keyboard player myself, as far as the chords are concerned, a guitarist would definitely have an edge. But for both of us, it was a great opportunity to assert the genius of the great MSV once again through this analysis.
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S.SAMPAT
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 30, 2007 12:01 am    Post subject: Rajavin Parvai Reply with quote

Dear tfmlover ,

Thanks a lot and thank u very much for ur appreciation. Only this kind of encouragement keeps me going. Anyhow I am too small a fellow. Some body may come out with a better analysis for the same song dear. I am expecting a reply from M/s.Ram, Vaidy,Vatsan,Venugopalan soundarajan and others for their comment . Awaiting their critical comments.

Regards
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Venugopalan Soundararajan
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 30, 2007 2:21 pm    Post subject: Musical Analysis. Reply with quote

Dear Sampat,

On 27th Jan, I had already made my reply to your initial posting (it was on the other Topic under the same name created by you). I am reproducing that reply below, for your ready reference. I once agian compliment you for the detailed "Musical Analysis". Those who have learnt Music (vocal or instrumental) would be in a position to appreciate your analysis better, than a "technical gnanasoonyam" like me. Pls keep it up.

With Luv,
Venu Soundar

My Reply of 27th Jan:
Dear Mr Sampat,

Welcome to the Forum and glad to note that you are a "Sishya" of Sri TNS. As such, it is no surprise that you have gone in to minute details on the song like the musical scales, etc. It is nice of you to have brought to our knowledge information like all the 12 notes of a keyboard appearing in the song. Please keep it up.

Regards,
Venu Soundar
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S.SAMPAT
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 30, 2007 2:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dear Venu Soundar, Saradha Prakash,

I am very glad to see your response. Mr.Venu i have already seen ur first reply. Just i wanted u to comment on the details of chords which i wrote recently. Thanks for ur reply. When u r a fan of the legend MSV, how can u be a "Gnasoonyam" dear? I have seen many technically sound people who do not acknowledge the greatness of the melody king MSV and fanatic of other music directors. In my opinion, they are "Gnasoonyams".
If u know the technical aspect of music, u can better appreciate the genius of MSV. Thats all. Nothing more , nothing less. Thanks Saradha Prakash for ur compliment - Music Man. I am greatful to u all.

regards.
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Ram
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 30, 2007 5:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dear Sampat,

Great analysis....I've also enjoyed many of your chords on the keyboard and felt the same joy as yours....!!!!

Welcome to MSVTimes and more postings like this please...!!!
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S.SAMPAT
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 30, 2007 11:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Ram,

How r u? Thanks for ur reply and compliment. What a genius MSV sir. The thing is we are consciously analysing the song but to the creator MSV, it had come naturally. I struggle for words to express my admiration . His genius is beyond all this. Iyyo!!! enna composer ya!!! I am blessed to live in the midst and the time of the great giant MSV.

Thank u once again

regards
Sampat
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s.r.sankaranarayanan
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 31, 2007 10:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

DEAR SAMPATH,

Heartening to see your analysis part of "rajavin parvai".it is not at all surprising that sishya of TNS -masterful in "kanakku" is enlightening us
on these aspects.Allow me for a slight digression,why not such aficionados
meet at a common place at convenient place and time to share insights (the advantage would be to sing and elaborate onthe finer points like a lec-demo.)ram,are you reading this,i now it will be difficult for you to fly down from US.there is reason for telling this.in that evening when we were packing off after the msv website launch function i had experienced this very brief informal session,and itell you,i am carrying those thoughts&thoughts( as one of my friends told recently after TNS's Devamanohari inthis season-I will carry this hearing experience to my death bed).give it a thought.

I would like to trigger an analysis by (technical &aesthetic)you on a song
"sugamaana sinthanaiyil" by SPB&JANAKI IN THE FILM "TAXIDRIVER">
the song in vaasanthi,i suppose,has lot of creative surprises . hear to charanam start note "azhagana thirumeni'.I will be grateful if you could do
the analysis and enlighten us to sharpen & deepen our hearing experience

i wish you more free time from your official cores.

bye for now.

s.r.sankaranarayanan
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vaidymsv
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 31, 2007 10:51 am    Post subject: Welcome Sampath Reply with quote

Dear Mr. Sampath,
Real in depth analysis. Thanks a ton for educating us on the intrecacies of Rajavin Paarvai. Raajavin Paarvai, ungal Paarvayil Puthu Polivu Petrathu. MSVTIMES.COM extends a warm welcome.

Mr. Sankaranarayanan,

Sugamana Sindhanayil is one of my all time favourite songs of our Master Creator. Right fron the chorus prelude and the end that fades out with a high note is something that shoud serve as a case study for all those aspring to be Music Directors and espicially for those self proclaimed MD's of TFM.

Welcome to ur exclusive world of Quality Music and Quality Listeners!!!

vaidy
core crew - msvtimes.com
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Ram
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 31, 2007 6:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

s.r.sankaranarayanan wrote:

Allow me for a slight digression,why not such aficionados
meet at a common place at convenient place and time to share insights (the advantage would be to sing and elaborate onthe finer points like a lec-demo.)ram,are you reading this,i now it will be difficult for you to fly down from US.there is reason for telling this.in that evening when we were packing off after the msv website launch function i had experienced this very brief informal session,and itell you,i am carrying those thoughts&thoughts( as one of my friends told recently after TNS's Devamanohari inthis season-I will carry this hearing experience to my death bed).give it a thought.


Dear Sankaranarayanan,

We have the idea of formal meetings as a part of MSVTimes.com, even before we launched a site. We are planning how to go about that. But it will happen, in the very near future.

And thanks for your suggestion. Yes... Totally agree that if MSV fans meet, nothing like it.

Await the announcement, soon !!!

Regards,
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S.SAMPAT
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 31, 2007 8:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dear Mr. Saradha Prakash,

Congrats for ur century. I wish u many more such centuries.

Dear Mr.Vaidy

What a song is Naaaan --- unnai Azhaikavilai. And a combination of geniuses MSV and TMS. Shall i take Naan Unnai Azhaikalvilai for detail analysis as i am unable to find "sugamana sindhanaiyil". Pls reply. One more thing, I wish to be accurate to the best of my ability. Hence I am not sure the song I have is the original pitch. Because the "Pon ezhil Puthadhu Pudhu vanil" i have, has a different pitch and what is availble in our MSVtimes site is different. Hence I want u to add up these songs at the earliest and oblige.

Sangathis,

1. Naaaaa--n Kavignanum illai------
2. Nan enna sollivittaen nee yaen mayanguhira---i ,naan samadham kae----taen nee thalai kunindha yoo----
3. Madhavi pon mayilai thogai virithal ( I am unable to bring out the sangathis as u people do. sorry.)
4. Anbae vaa -- ullam endroru kovilae

Many more to come from everyone. S.R.S we are thankful to u that u have started a great topic.

regards
sampat
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S.SAMPAT
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 31, 2007 8:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dear Mr.Vaidy,

What i do is very small compared to what u have given for us. You have made the dream a reality. what i say to thank u all . U have made us to talk about the greatness of MSV sir. In my eyes, u are all greater than what i contribute. I am ever greatful to the crew members like u,Ramki, Ram, Mr.Sabesan to name a few.

And what lesson for all of us by listening to MSV's songs. My pranams to MSV sir. How is he improving now? Pls let us know.

regards,
sampat
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S.SAMPAT
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 31, 2007 8:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dear Mr.Vaidy,

What i do is very small compared to what u have given for us. You have made the dream a reality. what i say to thank u all . U have made us to talk about the greatness of MSV sir. In my eyes, u are all greater than what i contribute. I am ever greatful to the crew members like u,Ramki, Ram, Mr.Sabesan to name a few.

And what lesson for all of us by listening to MSV's songs. My pranams to MSV sir. How is he improving now? Pls let us know.

regards,
sampat
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