"MSV CLUB" - The Discussion Forum of MSVTimes.com

[Srinivass NV]

Foreword : Life's realities have often reminded me of HR Consultants, Management Professionals and Geologists... Between all of them, I see a similarity... All of them are extremely good in reasoning out how an event occured... but invariably, they all fumble when it comes to reasoning out why did the event choose to occur the way it has. How Ganges has taken its course?... Perhaps, this question has a Geographical explanation. But, can anyone ever reason out why did Ganges choose to take that course!?...

At this point of writing, I feel, the aesthetics embedded into each and every Frame of this Song is clearly out of reach for a mediocre like me. I confess, I will never be able to bringout a writing which can explain what makes this Song carry so much of Soul and Elegance. At the most, I can attempt to outline how this Song has been structured. Languages seem to be the most inferior form of tools when it comes to sharing the ectasy, a Divine Music induces in one's inner self... Like the fragnance of a flower...it can only be experienced by the Spritual Body. And...certainly, this is one of the most fragnant flowers which would have ever descended onto the world of Tamil Film Music!..

Having said this, I prefer to travel back to the point where the Part I paused...

சுமைதாங்கி சாய்ந்தால்
சுமையென்ன ஆகும்...
மணிதீபம் ஓய்ந்தால்
ஒளியெங்கு போகும்... (சுமைதாங்கி...)

சிரித்தாலும் போதும்
தெய்வங்கள் கூடும்...
சிலைபோல சாய்ந்தால்
கலையெங்கு போகும்...

குலமங்கை கூந்தல்
கலைந்தாடலாமா...
மலர்சூடு கண்ணே
மணவாளன் முன்னே... (சுமைதாங்கி...)

மணமாலை கொண்ட
மதுரை மீனாட்சி...
நடமாட வேண்டும்
நான் தேடும் காட்சி...

அலர்மேலு மங்கை
துணையுண்டு கண்ணே...
அலங்கார மஞ்சள்
நிதம்காக்கும் உன்னை... (சுமைதாங்கி...)

With the Greatest Poetic Immortal flowing out with his exemplery choice of words to picturize the situation, the onus of delivering an equally glorious musical outline to these Lyrics has now fallen on the shoulders of the Greatest Musical Immortal. At this point of time, it would be worthy to recollect the following aspects through which we had walked in the Part I :

1. The Lyrics above, carry the same Poetic METER throughout (தனனான னான)... an obvious evidence of the affinity, Kaviyarasar had for Grammatic Compliance. This has been the METER whichruns throughout the entire Song.

2. Now...the need of the hour for the MD is to Compose for a pre-existing Lyric which carries the same Poetic METER throughout. And... this must be done without sounding Classical, as the situation doesnot warrant one! In my opinion, this is certainly going to impose stringent restrictions on the MD as he has to come out with atleast 12 sets of unique Sequences of Notations in order to outline the Pallavi (4) and the Charanam (. There is clearly no scope for Classical accents or sanchaarams which could have given him some flexibility to sound non-repetitive. And, most importantly, with all this liability imposed, the outcome must atleast sound acceptable!...

Remember...(from Part I) : Collectively, there were 2 challenges for the MD and the Poet. Now, there are 3 challenges confronting the MD...the Poet himself becoming the cause of the third!...

Now!... Where does the MD Start?!...

To me, the first move the MD could make, confines to identifying the right Musical METER for the existing Poetic METER...and...for a genuine MD, this would have happened almost involuntarily, the moment the Lyrics are made visible to his eyes!... இங்கே, தாளமென்ற கொடி அசைந்த பிறகே இசையென்ற காற்று தொடங்கியிருக்க இயலும்!...

If one has to understand this concept better, it would be ideal to walk through the various Musical Time Signatures used popularly in a Cine Application. Here, I choose to take yet another diversion with an assumption that this elite Forum will extend its support whenever I tend to crash!...

Take Diversion

Time Signatures (Rhythm Frames) :
---------------------------------------

Going by my own conventions, I would like to define the Time Signatures (as referred by the Theory) as 'Rhythm Frames'. For easier understanding, one can visualize a 'Rhythm Frame' as a 'Unit Time-bound Container' which accommodates Basic patterns of Beats. Multiples of the Rhythm Frames executed in a periodic Sequence, result in a Rhythm Pattern. The point to be noted is, a Rhythm Frame is different from a Rhythm Pattern; Until and unless notified, our present focus is likely to be on the Rhythm Frames only.

To my awareness, the following Rhythm Frames have invariably found a place in Film Music :

1. 2/4
2. 4/4
3. 3/4
4. 6/8
5. 5/8
6. 7/8

General Definition : The Upper Value indicates the Number of Beats per Frame; The Lower Value indicates the Note-Value per Beat (Note-Value alias மாத்திரை). As an example, in the case of a 2/4 Rhythm Frame, the Upper Value (2) denotes 2 Beats per Frame. The Lower Value (1/4) indicates that the Note-Value (duration of the Beat) is a 'Quarter'. This means, 2 Beats of Quarter Duration played once, result in a 2/4 Rhythm Frame!... Remember, we are only talking about a 2/4 Rhythm Frame!... The 2/4 Rhythm Pattern however, is obviously a 'n' Multiple of the 2/4 Rhythm Frame!...

For Eg., in practice, a typical 2/4 Rhythm Pattern comprises of 4 consecutive sets of 2/4 Rhythm Frames played on a percussion instrument like a Triple Congo, in order to complete ONE CYCLE!... For better clarity, readers can take the example of the Rhythm Pattern played in the song போனால் போகட்டும் போடா. This is a typical variant of 2/4 Rhythm Pattern, which is one of the most used patterns by MSV. Readers can extend the above explanation to all the Rhythm Frames (Time Signatures) listed above, in order to understand them better. By the end of this exercise, if one understands how to interpret the Symbolic representations like 2/4, 4/4, etc., it would be largely sufficient for now.

At this point, the roadmap of this Script would be :
1. Trying to define the various Rhythm Patterns, based on our existing awareness about Rhythm Frames.
2. Understand with examples the various Rhythm Patterns, as they have been applied in the Industry.
3. Come back to the Lyrics under analysis and evaluate the various options available to the MD for matching the Poetic METER with the Rhythm pattern of his choice in order to derive the Musical METER.
4. See some Conventions on METER matching.
5. Correlate and find out, how the Genius has done it finally!...

A word of Caution : By following the above sequence of events, I am just trying to ELONGATE on the TIME AXIS, the events which would have happened within a few milli-seconds inside the mind of the MD. I feel, I need to attempt this just to bring out the Viswaroopam of Viswanathan. In other words,... what we are going to toil about for paragraphs, would have occured within a few milli-seconds inside the mind of the Greatest Genius!...

Rhythm Patterns :
-------------------

With the background information about Rhythm Frames (Time Signatures) hopefully clear, we can now proceed to derive the typical Rhythm Patterns invariably used in Cine Music. To my awareness, the 2/4, 4/4, 3/4 & 6/8 Rhythm Patterns have been more frequently used than their other counterparts, as they permitted comparitively more varieties of Musical METERs. Let us briefly go through each one of them, to have a better insight.

1. 2/4 :

Definition : Four sets of 2/4 Rhythm Frames repeated in equal succession to complete a Cycle... (1 Frame= தக). This Rhythm Frame falls under the Chathusram Family (Can be nearest approximated to represent இரட்டை களை ஆதி). I would say, this Rhythm Pattern has been fortunate to be the favourite of the Genius.

Examples : For the sake of learning better, here are some, from MSV and Illayaraja
பாலும் பழமும் கைகளில் ஏந்தி (a typical MSV Variant of 2/4)
படைத்தானே!...படைத்தானே!
சிலர் சிரிப்பார் சிலர் அழுவார்
சொன்னது நீதானா
முத்துக்களோ கண்கள்
மதுரையில் பறந்த மீன் கொடியை
சிரித்து சிரித்து என்னை
வந்த நாள் முதல்
பார்த்த ஞாபகம் இல்லையோ
நினைப்பதெல்லாம் நடந்துவிட்டால்
எங்கிருந்தாலும் வாழ்க
சின்னச் சின்ன ரோஜா பூவே
தென் மதுரை வைகை நதி, etc.,...

Application Arena : Generic and versatile, suitable for all occasions, right from Tragic to Comic situations. Tempo with which this Rhythm Pattern is played, might play a role in deciding the suitablity to a given situation.

2. 4/4 :

Definition : Four sets of 4/4 Rhythm Frames repeated in equal succession to complete one Cycle... (1 Frame= தகதிமி). This Rhythm Frame also falls under the Chatusram Family (Can be nearest approximated to represent ஒற்றைக் களை). This has also been one of the widely used Rhythm Patterns by all Music Directors.

Examples :
நான் பேச நினைப்பதெல்லாம்
தத்திச் செல்லும் முத்துக்கண்ணன் சிரிப்பு
தெய்வம் தந்த வீடு
அன்பு நடமாடும் கலைக்கூடமே
இசை கேட்டால் புவி (a Classical Variant of the 4/4 Pattern)
இளைய நிலா பொழிகிறதே
காற்றில் உந்தன் கீதம், etc.,...

Application Arena : Generic and versatile, suitable for all occasions, right from Tragic to Comic situations. Here too, the Tempo with which this Rhythm Pattern is played, might play a role in deciding the suitablity to a given situation.

3. 3/4 :

Definition : Four sets of 3/4 Rhythm Frames repeated in equal succession to complete a Cycle... (1 Frame= தகிட). This Rhythm Pattern falls under the Thisram Family.

Examples :
நாளை இந்த வேளை பார்த்து
பாலூட்டி வளர்த்த கிளி
மன்னவனே அழலாமா
கண்ணன் வந்தான்
ராசாத்தி ஒன்ன காணாத நெஞ்சு
சின்னச் சின்ன வண்ணக்குயில்
கண்மணியே காதலென்பது
தென் பாண்டி சீமையிலே, ராசாவே ஒன்ன நம்பி (an Illayaraja Variant of the 3/4)
செந்தூரப் பூவே, etc.,...

If the 2/4 domain has been dominated by MSV, quite honestly I can say, this 3/4 domain belongs to Illayaraja as far as the numbers and variants are concerned.

Application Arena : Comparitively less versatile with reference to the 2/4 or the 4/4. Seems to fit in more appropriately for situations which represent atleast a micro-trait of melancholy.

4. 6/8 :

Definition : Four sets of 6/8 Rhythm Frames repeated in equal succession to complete a Cycle... (1 Frame= தகிடதகிட). This Rhythm Pattern also falls under the Thisram Family. Please note the denominator here... Each Beat in a Frame, has a Note-Value of 1/8th as referred by Western Notations.

Examples :
அதோ அந்த பறவை போல
பாரதமே என்னருமை பாரதமே
என்னைத் தெரியுமா
பாட்டு பாடவா
ராஜ ராஜ சோழன் நான்
அண்ணாத்த ஆடுறார் ஒத்திக்கோ ஒத்திக்கோ, etc.,...

Application Arena : Comparitively even lesser versatile with reference to the 2/4, the 4/4 or the 3/4. I am not quite sure...may to fit in more appropriately for situations which represent assertiveness, proclamation, etc.

5. 5/8 :

Definition : Four Sets of 5/8 Rhythm Frames repeated in equal succession to complete a Cycle... (1 Frame= தகதகிட). This Rhythm Pattern falls under the Kandam Family. Each Beat in a Frame, has a Note-Value of 1/8th of the Basic Timing.

Examples :
பாடிடுக பாடிடுக பரந்தாமன் மெய்ப்புகழை (Baja Govindham's Remake by Kaviyarasar, Composed and Sung by MSV)
கல்யாண மாலை கொண்டாடும் பெண்ணே, etc.,...

6. 7/8 :

Definition : Four sets of 7/8 Rhythm Frames repeated in equal succession to complete a Cycle...(1 Frame= தகிட தகதிமி). This Rhythm Frame falls under the Misram Family. Each Beat in a Frame, has a Note-Value of 1/8th of the Basic Timing.

Examples :
மலர்கள் சூட்டி மஞ்சள் கூட்டி (a part of மஞ்சள் முகம் from Karnan)
பொட்டு வைத்த ஒரு வட்ட நிலா, etc.,...

If the above is clear to a fairly acceptable extent, we are now ready to perform the Meter Matching exercise.

Poetic METER Vs Music METER :
-----------------------------------

It is always important to have the best possible match between the Poetic METER (சந்தம்) and the Music METER. In order to do this, one has to superimpose the Poetic METER (hitherto referred as PM) onto the Rhythm Pattern of his choice. For doing this, it will require to elongate or contract the PM so that the Timing of the PM matches with that of the native Rhythm Pattern. The result of such an accomplishment is nothing but the Music METER!... Now, let us pick up the Poetic METER under scrutiny, for analysis.

தனனான னான... The PM is firm and fixed!... Let us now try to fit in this PM to the various Rhythm Patterns we worked out as above. The PM counts 8 (8 மாத்திரைகள் கால அளவு)!...a naturally

Chathusram Family of METER. However, if the MD wishes, he can expand or contract the Time Value of the PM and make it fit into the other Families of Rhythm patterns.

Word of Caution :

1. It is aesthetically permissible to expand the Time Value of the PM; On the contrary, it would be unfair to squeeze-in the natural Time Value of any given PM because of the fact that the Lyrics get crushed and could mean absurd or something else while rendering!...

2. While there is no limit to expand the Time Value of a PM by Grammar, it is important to follow certain conventions for the sake of aesthetics (Meesic Directors exempted)!... Any Language permits Musically xpanding the words while rendering, only on the following grounds :
- Musically Expanding the pronounciation is permissible in the case of Letters with Double count (நெடில்).
- Musically Expanding the pronounciation is permissible in the case of மெய் எழுத்துக்கள். (Some one please help me in translating in English)

Note : 'Expansion' means, prolonging the pronounciation to an extent which overruns the natural pronouncing duration of the Letter in the Word. By following the above conventions, it will be possible to elongate the given PM and fit in onto any Rhythm Pattern. However, it is the MD's responsibility to ensure the result sounds aesthetic.

Now, let us go back to the process of attempting a Match for Kaviyarasar's PM with the available Rhythm Patterns in order to derive the Music METER (hitherto referred as MM).

Case 1 : 2/4

This MUST be possible just because the PM and the Rhythm Pattern in this case, belong to the same Family. In order to convince ourselves with this statement, let us choose a pre-existing 2/4 Music METER and try fitting-in this PM without compromising on the aesthetics. I would prefer to choose the MM behind the song பொட்டு வைத்த முகமோ. This song is basically a 2/4 Rhythm Variant. If one attempts to sing the Charanam of பொட்டு வைத்த முகமோ by substituting with the Charanam Lyrics from சுமைதாங்கி சாய்ந்தால் (சிரித்தாலும் போதும்), one can realize how elegantly this fits in!... It fits-in as if the Lyrics are written for the Tune of பொட்டு வைத்த முகமோ!... Try this yourself!...

Conclusion : The MD can very well choose a straight-forward 2/4 Rhythm Pattern to develop the Music METER!...

Case 2 : 4/4

This option is also quite feasible as the PM and the Rhythm Pattern in this case, belong to the same Family again. As a matter of proof, let us choose the MM of the Song மங்கையருள் மகராணி. Let us now try to substitute the first four lines of the Charanam : மையோடு கொஞ்சம் with சிரித்தாலும் போதும். This would reveal the compatibility beyond doubt!...

Conclusion : The MD could have very well chosen a straight-forward 4/4 Rhythm Pattern to develop the MM!...

Case 3 : 3/4

To begin with, it would be difficult to guess whether the PM given by Kaviyarasar would aesthetically suit a 3/4 Rhythm Pattern. However, let us try for some Match. Here, I prefer to choose the Charanam MM of the Song பொன் ஒன்று கண்டேன் for evaluation. Surprisingly, one can find, the first four lines of the Charanam Lyrics : சிரித்தாலும் போதும் smoothly fits in place of the first Four Lines of the Charanam : நடமாடும் மேகம்

Conclusion : The MD could have very well chosen a 3/4 Rhythm Pattern!... The Lyrics would have still fit in!... With the Situation warranting a tone of melancholy, the 3/4 MM could also be a viable option.

Case 4 : 6/8

In this case, although I am unable to quote an existing example of Match, I am fairly convinced through some experimentation that this PM given by Kaviyarasar could well fit into a 6/8!... However, this particular Lyrics delivered by Kaviyarasar for this situation, is found to be aesthetically spoilt when rendered in a 6/8 MM.

Conclusion : The MD could safely avoid using a 6/8 Rhythm Pattern on aesthetics grounds!...

Case 5 : 5/8

Again this is a guess!... Fortunately, an example comes to our rescue in the form of the Song கல்யாண மாலை கொண்டாடும் பெண்ணே!... Please substitute the first four Lines of the Charanam Lyrics : சிரித்தாலும் போதும் in place of the first four Lines of the Charanam : வாலிபங்கள் ஓடும்!... Quite interestingly, this fits in with ease!!!...

Conclusion : The MD could have even chosen a 5/8 Rhythm Pattern to develop the MM !... But the natural flair of a 5/8 MM does not suit the given Situation for which Kaviyarasar has penned the Lyrics. The 5/8 normally gives a feel of a rhythmic jump. Remember, there is a huge gathering of Fans sitting upright...with moistured eyes!... All their emotion would turn into a murderous rage if all of a sudden, their Hero starts 'Jumping' along with the Song, given this situation. Hence, it is better on part of the MD to avoid choosing the 5/8 for this Situation.

Case 6 : 7/8

In this case also, although I am unable to quote an existing example of Match, I am convinced through some experimentation that this PM given by Kaviyarasar could well fit into a 7/8!... However, I personally feel, the aesthetics behind the pronounciation gets degraded when the PM is thrust into the 7/8. The fit-in is not as naturally elegant as it was in the other cases.

Conclusion : The MD can preferably avoid the 7/8 Rhythm Pattern!...

Now, we are at the end of the phase in which we have tried to match the Poetic METER with the available Rhythm Patterns. A silent fact surfaces... As far as the METER is concerned, the Poetic METER given by Kaviyarasar has MATCHED with almost all the forms of Rhythm Patterns without sounding absurd atleast!!!... Please recollect the statements in Part I wherein I have claimed, "Whenever Kaviyarasar has penned the Lyrics first, he has done it with an exceptional sense of METERING". I bet, the above exercise is the most evident proof for the Greatness of Kaviyarasar Kannadasan. He has given such a versatile METER to MSV, which provides all the options available on the earth for the MD to come out with his Product!... Atleast, the MD is not constrained so that he is forced to insist the Poet to change some words for the sake of a better Match!... What a genius!!!...

Back to the point...

Now that, the given PM aesthetically gives rise to atleast 3 MMs, we are now at the brink of making THE DECISION of choosing the one which is convenient to us. We have taken minutes to arrive at this point of Time Axis, which the Genius would have arrived within a few fractions of a Second. He has chosen a 2/4!... I am not surprised...He is a MASTER of the 2/4 Pattern. Geographically...we have now established the starting point of the Ganges.

At a later point of time, in Part III, we can proceed to understand how it has progressed. Remember,...we can never find out why it has progressed that way.

With Love
_________________
NVS

[vaidymsv]

DEAR NVS,

WHEN IT COMES TO WRITING ON OUR MASTER, YOU ARE ANOTHER GANGES IN ABSOLUTE SPATE. BUT, DO I CONSTRUE MENTION OF CERTAIN SONGS THAT YOU HAVE WRITTEN ABOUT AS POLLUTANTS ALONG IT'S PATH??????????????

WHAT EVER SAID & DONE, YOU ARE ANOTHER GREAT CREATOR MSV..... OOPS NVS!!!

CHEERS
MSV IS MUSIC
VAIDY
_________________
vaidymsv

[S.Balaji]

ENLIGHTENING

ASTOUNDING

Its actually a dictionary on music !

Amazing work dear NVS

God. This post has everything in it !

Now I understand why U needed time ! An object lesson music

Though the song is class apart, still it needs a SPECIALIST to describe the NUANCES . And its U .

I could see the great effort that you have put in to build this post ! Hats off to You .

Dear Vaidy, pls show this to the Master . He would have been immensely pained by the loss of Vishweswaran. Let this be a sound healer .

NVS .... I think its time we all arrange for a meeting with the Master [/b]

[S.Balaji]

NSV

Ur post itself is worth a research material !

[saradhaa_sn]

"AMAZING"

I have no other words to admire your Home Work, about this song.

You have done a keen research on this song, which should be put as a lesson for the Musical Students.

As Balaji said, this post MUST be taken to the knowledge of Mellisai Mannar, and should get his admiration for your hard work.

Wonderful.......! Wonderful......!!.
_________________
Saradha Prakash

[Ram]

It will be an absolute worthless effort, if we try to praise with few words to describe what our NVS has posted. What a great Analysis! Astounding! Lessons for everyone and for future...

Dear NVS... I bow before thy knowledge and effort!
_________________
Ramkumar

[Srinivass NV]

Dear Vaidy/Balaji/Sarada Madam/Ram,
All your affection and support will certainly bless me with lot of strength to adore the Genius better. Thank you so much.

I would like to dedicate this outcome to the feet of Late Shri.Visweswaran and all the great Musicians who have worked for our Genius.

With Love
_________________
NVS

[S.SAMPAT]

Dear NVS,

How are u? After a long time for the Part II, u have come out with a nice article.

The following are my observations of the song.

If you have noticed, the poetic meter of first line Sumaithaangi Saaindhaal is 9 and not the conventional 8 notes. sumai -2 thaan-2 gi - 1
Saain - 2 Dhaal - 2 (Thana naana naa naa ) and the same is applicable for the third line and all others are in 8 as you said.

MSV has started the song after 3 mathirai. Taking Rythm cycle as 4/4 with 4 notes beats total is 16 notes. Sumaithaangi Saaindhaal is tuned in such a way it is finished in 13 notes!!! To complete the cycle , another 3 notes are there on the samam!!! Then next line Sumai Enna Aagum starts only after 3 notes. After that all the lines are tuned to complete the cycle of 16 notes. To me, pause after the Sumai thaangi Saaindhaal" speaks volume about the agony of the man singing the song and the aesthetic sense of the music director.

Next, Scale is Harikhomboji which gives the flavour of its Hindustani Counterpart Khamaj, a great deal. Mind u all, this is the pathos and not a single alien note finds a place as against normal MSV composition which includes deviation even in a love song!!

Here, connecting bridge of charanam to pallavi is the tune of PALLAVI itself !!!!!!!! "Kulamanngal Koondhal" is the same tune that of the pallavi itself. This is very unique.

If u consider 2/4 is Irandhu Kaalai Adhi and 4/4 is single Kaalai, there are one and the same in Rythmic parlance and there is no 2/4 in Jathis explained in Carnatic music. Jathis starts only from 3 (Tisram). Kindly clarify.

With warm regards
Sampat

[rajeshkumar_v]

அருமையான விமர்சனம் அழகான விளக்கம் ஆஹா படித்து படித்து மகிழ்ந்தேனய்யா

வாழ்த்துக்கள் தொடரட்டும் உமது பணி


ராஜ்

[Srinivass NV]

Dear Sampat,
So nice to hear from you. I am very much pleasantly surprised at the points you have mentioned.

Actually, your post has come like a Preview Show of the Part III which is under construction. You have rightly represented the aspects which I intended to write in part III.

Now, replying to your querries :

The majority Poetic Meter in this song is 8. Ofcourse, there are some Lines with 9 counts. Actually, I did not want to elaborate on this deviation in Part II as my intuition was constantly warning me that my script could any moment deviate into more disclarity if I start describing all the variants in the way. I wanted to specifically take up with this exception (9 Counts) in Part III when I need to elaborate on how the Genius has handled it finally!...Part II is just an attempt to outline the various options available to the MD in order to fit in the Poetic METER with an effort to capture his thought process in realtime.

Regarding the Rhythm cycle, I clearly understand your point of view. I feel, one has to either take the Classical way of denoting the Rhythm Frame or the western way. Yours is a Classical viewpoint but you choose to denote it the Western way by equating the Classical Thaalam to a 4/4 Symbol. Globally, yes, you are right. Yet, as I have understood, I feel there is some difference between the two ways of defining the Beat. I would prefer to attempt a realtime comparison between the Classical & Western ways, with a view to get corrected if I am wrong.

The Classical Way :

Our Classical System attempts a Three-Tier architecture as far as defining the Final Beat.

1. Fundamental Timing Mechanisms (Thisram, Chathusram, Kandam, etc) form the First Layer (Basic Classification)

2. Timing Structures (Thala Framework) derived from the Fundamental Mechanisms (Aadhi, Roopagam, etc), constitute the Tier-Two. This layer defines the Structure of each Timing Pattern.

3. The Unit Percussion Phrases of the Thaala (Like தரிகிடதோம்) which are nothing but the Phrases (சொல்), a Mirudhanga vidhwan assembles on a realtime to fit-in within the given Timing Structure (Thaala). Pardon me, I am unable to quote more examples for the சொல் for fear of pronouncing absurd.

To summarize the above, our system has :
- Defined the Fundamental Timings
- Outlined the Timing Structures as Thaalas
- Defined the Elementary combinations of Phrases (சொல்) for the Percussionist to determine at realtime, what combination to apply in order to fill in the given Time space.

It is noteworthy that there is abundant freedom for the Percussionist to determine any combination of the சொல் to his choice. As an example, in order to play for a Misra Nadai (Multiples of 7 Counts), the percussionist can very well use the combination தகதரிகிட- தகதிமிதகஜணு. As you know, this is nothing but the combination of a Thisram Phrase (6 Counts) and a Chathusram Phrase (8 Counts), in order to represent a Misra Nadai (2 x 7 Counts).

The Western Way :

The Western method attempts a more straight-forward Two-Tier architecture, wherein :

1. Fundamental Timing Mechanisms (referred as Time Signatures by Theory and referred as Rhythm Frames in Part II) like 2/4, 4/4, 3/4, etc. for the Basic Layer.

2. The Second Layer directly defines the End Rhythm Pattern. By mentioning "2/4 Rhythm" as applicable to Film Music, one means, 2 Beats alias சொல் (தக) which is equal to one 2/4 Frame, played 4 consecutive times to complete one Cycle. Here, it is obvious, the Application firmly defines What Frame to play and What Structure to use. There is not much scope for out-of-the-box innovations as in the case of Our System.

Note : The ambiguity creeps in when one equates the Chathusra Gathi Aadi as referred by Our System with a 4/4 Rhythm Pattern as defined by the Western System. These are clearly two distinct references. The Former is a Basic Structure of the Timing which can house innumerable Percussion Phrases of any combination to result in a Rhythm pattern. The Latter is a Specific Rhythm Pattern by itself. There are clearly two different Rhythm Patterns (2/4 and 4/4) both of which fall under the Chathusra Gathi Aadi.

Now, let us come back to the application of the 2/4 and the 4/4 Rhythm patterns in the Industry. The Film industry has invariably followed the convention of choosing the 2/4 or 4/4 Rhythm Pattern for the given Chathusram Timing based on the Tempo of the Song. In order to verify this, let me take the example of the Song ராத்திரி நேரத்து பூஜையில் from ஊமை விழிகள். Ideally, the most natural Rhythm Pattern for this song is the 2/4. Imagine the Rhythm Pattern of பாலும் பழமும் கைகளில் ஏந்தி played for this Song. This will fit in with a natural Tempo. However, the MD has chosen to squeeze in a 4/4 Pattern. And...see how the song gives an illusion of a Runner. The Rhythm seems to have 'Doubled' up in Tempo like in the case of a Dholak used in a Bhajan.

Inference : When a 4/4 is fit in forcefully into a Tempo which is natural for a 2/4, it gives a feel of a Doubled up Runner. Conversely, if a 2/4 is fit in forcefully into a Tempo which is a natural 4/4, the Song appears to have slowed down too much. This is justified by the very fact that if for a given Tempo in Chathusram, the 4/4 sounds 4 Beats per Count and the 2/4 sounds 2 Beats per count thus sounding slowed down by Half.

Now, finally, a Chathusram Timing with a Natural Tempo for 2/4 coincides more precisely with a இரட்டை களை ஆதி and the Chathusram Timing with a Natural Tempo for a 4/4 coincides more precisely with a ஒற்றை களை ஆதி. Here, it is important to freeze the Tempo at the most resonant point for each Rhythm Pattern and verify the claim. I would suggest, one closes his eyes and let his Foot decide the களை. This means, for all the Film Songs which carry a 2/4 Meter, one's foot will naturally 'Tap' on a இரட்டை களை. This is because of the fact that our Foot can never 'Tap' on a ஒற்றை களை as it would be too fast for the foot to respond for the given Tempo. Conversely, the foot will naturally 'Tap' on ஒற்றை களை for a natural 4/4 Film Song. With all this, please note that I have cautiously referred this as "Can be nearest approximated to" meaning, there is room for a controversy as this is very subjective because there is no Scale for the Tempo.

Dear Sampat, I wish to get your opinion on this because, I would value your concurrence as the Stamp of Authenticity for my above Logical Perceptions. If I am still wrong, you need to explain me the right thing, in a way I can understand. I feel this would benefit everyone of us. Eager to get your views.

With Love
_________________
NVS

[S.SAMPAT]

Dear NVS,

Thank u very much for ur reply. I ll try to explain the western timings as far as I know.

In western music 2/4 is explained as follows.

The lower value represents the type of the note. That is Crochet or minim etc. Crochet is called a quarter note and has one count. Hence 1/4 represents a Crochet which has only one count. Upper number 2 represents number of crochets in a bar in 2/4. And 4/4 is 4 crochets in a bar. Hence there is no variation in the value with respect to Tempo at all between 2/4 and 4/4. The value is 2 crochet in 2/4 per bar and 4 crochets in 4/4 per bar.

Even in western classical music 2/4 has only limited uses.

The variation in Tempo is not represented by just mentioning the song is in 2/4 or 4/4 at all. Then how to determine the tempo in western music.
It is clearly mentioned at the top as MM= 76 , (MM= Maelzel Metronome and 76 tells the musician to match his music to Metronome set to the 76 clicks per minute). Therefore 2/4 is not near to rattai kalai and 4/4 near to Otrai Kalai as far as the western idiom is concerned. Probably, 2/2 is near to Rattai kalai adhi with the denomenator represents the type note as mimim which has two counts and the numerator represents two minims per bar.

In the tamil film, as far as I have seen they will indicate the musical sequence in Bars. You might have heard music director telling "have that BGM for 8 Bars " which is normally mean 4*8 = 32 Crochets. Normally it is only Ega Thalam that is predominant in Tamil film industry. This is the reason I got confused when u speak of 2/4 and 4/4 as different taking Western Music as the base. Hence practically, there is no big difference in terms of value between 2/4 and 4/4. Hence u can sing all the songs in 2/4 in 4/4 and vice versa.

With warm regards,
Sampat

[s.r.sankaranarayanan]

DEAR NVS,SAMPATH,


LOOKS LIKE BACK IN GOOD OLD DAYS.REFRESHING POSTS AND DISCUSSIONS. WHEN I HAD A CURSORY READING OF THE POST I HAD INITIAL DOUBTS WHICH SAMPATH HAS RAISED ,WHICH MR.SAMPATH HAS COMMUNICATED THRO" PHONE.THEN ONLY I ATTEMPTED A THOROUGH READING.

INITIAL CLARIFICATION REGARDING THE POETIC METER WHETHER IT FALLS TO 8 MAATHIRAI OR NINE ,
THE VERDICT IS A CLEAR 8 ONLY THROUOUT,AND NVS IS RIGHT.THE ELABORATION OF THIS IS A DETAILED GRAMMATICAL EXPOSTION TO BE BASED ON "YAPPALANKAARIKAI" WHICH I AM NOT ATTEMPTING TO DO HERE. BUT THERE IS PASSING SECRET. THE GRAMMATICAL FRAMEWORK FOR POETICAL METERS MAPPING INTO OSAI SANTHAMS IS LOOSELY BASED ON CONVENTION ONLY AND THE PREDOMINT FACTOR FOR THIS LOOSELY EVOLVED GRAMMATICAL STRUCTURE HAS BEEN THE AUDATORY FEEL OF THE RECITATION OF THE POETRY ONLY.THIS LOOKS VERY SURPRISING TO ME CONSIDERING THE CLASSISM OF THE LANGUAGE ITSELF.I HAVE ALREADY CONVEYED THE MATTER TO SAMPATH.

A VERY INTERESTING DISCUSSION WHICH ENABLED ME TO STUMBLE UPON AN SURPRISING REVELATION INTO POETIC METERS.

THANK YOU BOTH.

KEEP FIRING,

S.R.SANKARANARAYANAN

[Srinivass NV]

Dear Sampat,
Now I am able to gauge what you are trying to tell and why.

You mean to say, since 2/4 is 2 Counts of Quarters and 4/4 is 4 Counts of Quarters, it must be mathematically equal to : 2 x 2/4 = 1 x 4/4. So one can sing a song on a 2/4 Cycle or a 4/4 Cycle which are one and the same.

Yes you are very much right, if you are referring to only the Basic TIME SIGNATURE. This is mathematics and there cannot be any dispute over this. Like, one can also derive, four 3/4 Frames are equal to three 4/4 Frames.

But what I was trying to denote in my script is different. I am referring about a Rhythm Pattern and not a Time Signature. First, I have attempted to define the Time signatures with common terms for the sake of better clarity for the general public. Then I have proceeded to correlate their manifestations into Rhythm Patterns as they are followed in the Film Industry. From then on, all my references are only on Rhythm Patterns.

And now, to put it specifically :

When the Tempo of the Chathusram Timing has increased beyond a certain Point, the industry has used only a 2/4 Pattern for the Percussion and vice versa. This is because, if the 4/4 Pattern is impressed upon, it will give an impression of a Runner, like ராத்திரி நேரத்து பூஜையில். In this aspect of Rhythm Patterns, the 2/4 and the 4/4 are clearly complementary and are not the same as far as their Application demands are concerned. I am so sure, aesthetically, a song like பாலும் பழமும் will appear as a Bhajan with a 4/4 Rhythm Pattern superimposed, keeping the Tempo of the song the same!... Conversely, a song like நான் பேச நினைப்பதெல்லாம் will certainly appear a Tragic substance if a 2/4 Pattern is played on the percussion as it sounds slowed down too much.

Hope this clarifies my point of view. Would love to pull out more from you with a view to learn without paying anything.

With Love
_________________
NVS

[Srinivass NV]

Dear Sampat,
And as a continuation of my above reply, I think the aspect which triggered your doubt is, you are of the opinion that a "2/4 Rhythm Pattern" is always equal to 8 Quarters per Rhythm Cycle, complying with the Metromonic definitions. Ideally, yes. Practically, it is virtually impossible for the Film Industry to strictly abide by this theory.

I firmly believe, on a brutal majority of the cases, the Tempo of a given Song is determined by the MD on a more intuitional scale than by Grammar, based on the Aesthetics (Meesic Directors exclusive). So only, I was dare enough to mention, there is no Scale for the Tempo. Obviously, this is a remark w.r.t. the Film Music Compositions. (Ofcourse, it is true, I have learnt about Metromones from you in this process).

Coming back to the point, for example, let us take the two songs for which a typical 2/4 Rhythm pattern has been applied :

1. பாலும் பழமும் கைகளில் ஏந்தி
2. ஒரு ராஜா ராணியிடம்

It is very evident the Tempo of both the songs are different. The Latter is of a higher Tempo. But a 2/4 Rhythm Pattern is played for both!... This clearly means, the Crochet value can never find an application here. On a Metromonic basis, if the Former is found to comply with 16 Crochets per Rhythm Cycle, then the Latter is grammatically wrong and vice versa!...

I personally feel, it is inconvenient to bring in Mathematics here. Only aesthetics is more permissible. And...of all, both the songs have been Composed and Recorded by the Greatest Musical Genius in the World whom, I consider, as a Book of Reference as far as the Aesthetic-Acceptability of a Film Music Composition is concerned.

So, to summarize, by referring to a 2/4 or a 4/4 Rhythm Pattern, I seldom refer to the Metromonic definitions for the Quarter Duration. The reference to the Crochet or a Quaver stops once the Pattern is derived!...

Once the Pattern is established, I feel, Creativity must take over and the focus must be on the Aesthetics. Like, in order to Develop a Creative 3D Model, one need not know how a Computer Hardware is architectured or the Theory behind a Computer's function. A knowledge on how to Apply the Facility is sufficient. I still prefer to believe, upto the point of leading us to a Creative domain, the Theory must be referenced. Beyond this, Aesthetics must prevail in order to diversify the application as it has been done for the 2/4 Rhythms in the case of the above songs.

NB : Dear Sampat, the joy I have in the above dialogs with you is truly superlative. I know, I am conversing with a MASTER whom I adore for his Knowledge System in Music. You can consider this as a deliberate attempt from my side in order to bring out more Learning Material from you.

I am sure this Forum will enjoy this in a true spirit as I would for sure!... I forgot to thank you for the details you have mentioned in your reply. THANK YOU SO MUCH & THANK YOU FOR WHATMORE TO COME.

With Love
_________________
NVS

[S.Balaji]

NVS & Sampath

Pls continue to explore , do the treasure hunt on the music of Mellisai Mannar ! We are all closely going through your exchanges & all I can say is THERE IS SO MUCH TO LEARN & ITS A BIG LEARNING EXPERIENCE FOR ME.

Cheers