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'thoodhu sella oru thozhi illai ena'

 
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madhuraman
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Joined: 11 Jun 2007
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 28, 2012 7:17 am    Post subject: 'thoodhu sella oru thozhi illai ena' Reply with quote

Dear Friends,
After my effort to understand 'muthukkaLO kaNgaL', I find another poetic piece in 'thoodhu sella oru thozhi illai ena thuyar koNdAyO thalaivi' of the movie "pachchai viLakku". This is yet another number where the lyricist- MD[s] come in full blast showcasing competence of the highest order.
This was one song that never needed a scaffold of sorts. I mean SIMULTANEOUSLY the lyric and the music registered equal popularity from the sheer listening pleasure. In fact, this is one of those PATENTED versions of V-R compositions involving 2 female voices.
In the LATE SIXTIES to almost to early 70s, 2 female singers in a song were employed to perfection to convey varied emotions

of joy[pAlAdai mEni pani vAdai kAtril'],
romance[pAttondru tharuvAr pAdadi amma],
depression[ malarukku thendral pagai aanal'] or even
logic [adi yEndi asattu ppeNNE] or
judicious questioning [adi podi paiththiyakkAri] just to cite a few cases.

THOUGH BEGAN IN V-R days, MSV continued with aplomb whenever movie situations required them. That KD's presence provided all the lyrical assets to situational responses
was another reason for movie-makers to opt for such treatments of the story as a strategy of presentation.

However things drifted slowly towards honestly unnatural presentations ironically in the name of reality [the so called yathArtham]. The effect -especially the rapid plummet in quality of TFM and the songs, is a matter I shudder to think of. The painful deterioration in standards is an assiduous effort by the industry itself which glaringly gropes in the dark, trying to woo the audience with sparingly dressed women , beedi-biting heroes delivering impossible blows to dozens of well-built men in a naked display stupidity.
Instead of lamenting of the present, a view of the past is much more rejuvenating and let us do it in due course.

Thanks for the opportunity.

Warm regards. K.Raman Madurai.
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S.Balaji
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Joined: 10 Jan 2007
Posts: 772

PostPosted: Wed Nov 28, 2012 11:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Welcome Prof. A song which all MSV-TKR fans will unanimously vote for .

One of the very best of the melodies of the duo. Extraordinary tune and orchestration !

Gives immense joy and cheer whenever heard and immediately I get up to listen to every inch of the number . Refreshing fresh as ever ! How is it possible Very Happy

The speciality of this classic are those stunning rhythm chords during Thullum kaatru vandhu mella selai thoda .....and the ending of interludes, a sharp 2 stroke chord ! remarkable !!

Also the Sarangi interlude ....absolutely an amazing creation , ornamentation to a song .

LRE countering with a humming while PS closing it out is another imaginative work

Wish to know from Ramki/Vaidy on how the Master feels about this song and if possible , some fond recollection on how it was conceived
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V Sivasankaran
The Ardent


Joined: 13 Nov 2008
Posts: 152

PostPosted: Wed Nov 28, 2012 12:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dear Prof.

Sparingly dressed women, beedi biting heros & delivering impossible blows to dozens of well built men. More than apt words to describe the current state of affaris.

Shri. Msv dilgently nurtured the melody traditon. Unfortunately this traditon is dying. We are living in times, where there is paucity for melocy and lyrics.
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Vatsan
The Fervent


Joined: 20 Jan 2007
Posts: 352

PostPosted: Wed Nov 28, 2012 1:30 pm    Post subject: Thoothu... Reply with quote

An enchanting number like several of those V-R numbers, a kind of meticulous workmanship that, to the level of an atom, dishes out the right proportion of feelings and packages the devilishly enticing melody in a wrapper that only entices more. A "light hearted" situtation to the best of my memory and V-R have added an extra layer of seemingly Victorian romance. The magical chord played at the word "mella" in the line "mella sElai thoda" and judicious usage of chromatic notes, actually more in the charanams, bring through the touch of modern suave romance while the sarangi or Dilruba in the interlude add to the mystical charm the V-R numbers glitter with, until today. The harmony that runs behind the melody needs to be felt and not just listened to clinically, the moment the listener imbibes the above mentioned chord, the song seems to assume a different flavour altogether, and the listener ends up receiving the song differently. As one of the participants in this song told me, MSV's face wore a pensive look after the song was recorded, obviously something was amiss in the song, probably the lack of sense of completeness MSV is well known for ? MSV then calls back the singers and re-records the song with LR Easwari humming out the starting note of each chord in the pallavi, at the tail end of the song. A great touch of consummation, that brings to light the quality of the mood inducing chords construction.
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N Y MURALI
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Joined: 16 Nov 2008
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Location: CHENNAI

PostPosted: Wed Nov 28, 2012 2:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

When the line starts 'thullum latru' the back ground chord always fascinates me. Normally for that note, the major chord of that scale would be played but Philips preferred to play the sub dominant chord i e the chord of that note.

Assuming if the song is in C major, when the line 'thullum katru vandhu' the note is E for which the chord would be played with C major. But Philips used E major chord instead. This type of playing the sub dominant chord was new to the TFM. Many other examples can be given like 'avaliukkenna', 'Unnai thottu sendarana' etc. In fact they have also used D major for the note D in a C scale composition where G major has to be played. The first of that kind I was able to notice in 'thookkam un kangalai' especially at the place 'thokkamum amaidhiyum' where the melody is note D for which D major would be played instead of G major. Same aspect can be felt in the song 'Yaar andha nilavu'

I asked this question once to Mr. Anand Chellappa as to who and how this aspect has evolved for which he did not answered directly. But he said that this type of playing the sub dominant chord was first used by Philips in a song composed by Rajeswara Rao. He in fact played the song in accordion which I took in my camera.

So it goes to show that this could be Philps improvisation in the initial period but MSV was quick to notice this and he introduced the note of the sub dominant chord also in the melody in his later compositions.

In this song also he has used the note G sharp (Sudha daivadham) which is the sub dominant note.


Of course the Chord Mr. Balaji mentioned is very very unique and it defies logic. This can be imagined only by a person who is very sensitive to the situation and not theory.

Vatsan:
The chord note which LRE hums are two notes (the root and the middle) of the chords that is played along the melody.

N Y Murali
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Vatsan
The Fervent


Joined: 20 Jan 2007
Posts: 352

PostPosted: Wed Nov 28, 2012 2:51 pm    Post subject: Resp. Reply with quote

NYM...touche....yes....two notes not just the root note of the chord as I had written. Thanks. LRE's hummming alongside is the siver lining to the chord pattern especially at.....you know which place Wink
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vaidymsv
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Joined: 08 Nov 2006
Posts: 715
Location: Madras, India

PostPosted: Wed Nov 28, 2012 7:07 pm    Post subject: MELODY FOR THE WORLD Reply with quote

Dear All,

Well, I may not be a listener of the caliber of some who like to decipher the song to it's bottom most root. Yet, the song that has been discussed about is one of the greatest by the PS - LRE combo. What an innovation by our Master to have recalled LRE for rendering the final portions of the humming. Our hearts instantly turn young indeed.

To me, Shri. MSV is the only person who is effervescent with absolute creativity and nothing can come before it. Be it the 60's or the 2012's.....he is still the same and HIS creativity simply remains unmatched even today. That makes this little wonder really tall above the others isn't it???

What a song & way to go MSV!!!!

Cheers

MSV IS MUSIC!!!

VAIDYMSV

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S.Balaji
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 29, 2012 11:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Prof Sir,

On duets, I am sure you must be aware of another beautiful song from the same Pachai vilakku.... aval mella sirithaal ....a female duet PS-LRE. This song has that unforgettable Flute interlude !

Back to Thoodhu sella.....this song is another melody masterpiece with the prayoham of both the Madhyamams ----Prathi (M2 )and Suddha(M1 ) . The pallavi starts with Panchamam and briefly touches M2 and then oscillates between G3 and D2 basically common notes for both Kalyani and Shankarabaranam . The pallavi ends with Suddha madhayamam ( M1 )....However the notes throughout the song rally between the 2 raga scales .So its another complex creation wherein you cannot conclude with either Kalyani or Shankarabaranam.

Albeit, there are also moments of deviation from the ragas....mohathil aazndhaal thalaivi...... so, there is a brief exit and then swift coming back to the ragas !

Look how the interlude ends through Sliding of Violins ..... P S / SR / RG / GG / GG ....and then that 2 stroke of rhythm guitar ..genius work on PP !
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vaidymsv
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Joined: 08 Nov 2006
Posts: 715
Location: Madras, India

PostPosted: Thu Nov 29, 2012 5:36 pm    Post subject: NOTHING BUT VISHWA "RAAGAM" Reply with quote

Dear All,

As I had written in my earlier posting, majority of the songs tuned by this Master Creator has no binding on any Raaga as is evident. For decades, Shri. MSV has been spontaneously rolling out melody after melody based on the Bhaava or as the situation in the movie demanded. So, an analysis of HIS song based on Raaga beats the very purpose as none of the songs have been deliberately tuned on the basis of a Raaga. If at all MSV does, then he will ensure complete dharma on the prayogam of a raaga. Having said this, the very discussion of HIS songs more tilted towards a classical base is something that may not be relished by many.

For example, Santoor Legend, Late Pandit Visweshwaran narrated this incident to me. Once after a recording when MSV wanted to know on what Raaga base that particular song was tuned.....Viswesh said......sir neega tune pottu record panniachu...appuram intha aaraichiyellam ethukku, viswa raagam-nu vena vachukongo!!! This is precisely where people like me fit in.....We like the song in its absolute totality. May be we are not literate on the classical side but to analyse everything on a scale of Raaga doesn't comfort people like me...On the contrary, I am inclined to believe that probably the "elite" want to let others know as to how proficient they are....

This is my humble submission and need not be treated as a writing from a "Raaga" basher and no offence meant above all. After all, I also adore classical music. But when it comes to film music where creativity is put to its ultimate tests & levels, then the research of a "raaga" may not be necessary at all. We also know how other MDs have been virtually using many Raagas without any innovation and may be these can be discussed on a different thread.... But, when it comes to MSV, then it's only innovation & nothing but more innovation dotted in every inch of a song!!!

CHEERS

MSV IS MUSIC!!!

VAIDYMSV




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