"MSV CLUB" - The Discussion Forum of MSVTimes.com

[N Y MURALI]

Friends,
Have given a link on the above subjects. Your feed back Please


http://www.jeyamohan.in/?p=31098



N Y Murali

[V Sivasankaran]

Dear All,

Article of Jeyamohan lacks good analysis. Writer seems to be completely ignorant of the great works done by our master for close to 4 decades. His mentioning of MM leaving Re- Recording works with Joseph Krishna, needs to be condemed.

I had spoken to Murali about a detailed rejoinder to be sent to the author of this article. Let all the members of this forum contirbute towrads the draft. This rejoinder should make people like jeyamohan to do proper home work before they write an article.

[madhuraman]

Dear Friends,
As per a statement appearing in the article, IR's fan[s] seem[s] to believe that music began and ended with Raja. With such minds in confined territories of pure imagination, no fruitful transactions are possible. Better we don't look into notions. But the question remains 'Why that talent had to give way for others?'
Thanks for the opportunity.
Warm regards K.Raman Madurai
_________________
Prof. K. Raman
Mumbai

[ragasuda]

யதார்த்தம் என்ற பெயரில் இவர்கள் அடிக்கும் கூத்து தாள முடியவில்லை. ஏற்கெனவே செய்து வைத்திருக்கும் ஒரு தீர்மானத்தின் அடிப்படையில் இவர்களின் கருத்துக்களைத் திணிக்கும் போது அதற்கு பதில் எழுதுவதில் அர்த்தமில்லாமல் போகிறது. ஏற்கெனவே இவர் ஒரு முறை வலைப்பூவில் எழுதிய கருத்திற்காக கடுமையான கண்டனங்களை சந்திக்க நேரிட்டிருக்கிறது. இளையராஜாவின் இசை நிச்சயம் ஒரு புதிய அணுகுமுறையைத் தந்திருக்கிறது. ஆனால் எப்போது. மெல்லிசை மன்னர் இசையின் எந்த பரிணாத்தையும் விட்டு வைக்காமல் அத்தனை சாதனைகளையும் புரிந்த பின்னர், அதனிலிருந்து ஏதாவது மாறி செய்ய வேண்டும் என்கிற நிர்ப்பந்தத்தில் அவர் செய்த முயற்சி அது. புதுமையை விரும்பும் ரசிகர்களிடம் அது நிச்சயம் ஒரு பாதிப்பை உண்டாக்கியது இல்லை என்று சொல்ல வில்லை. ஆனால் அவர் மட்டுமே திரைப்படத்தினுள் ஐக்கியமாகி தந்திருக்கிறார் என்பது தான் மிகைப் படுத்தல். மிகைப் படுத்தலை கண்டிக்கிறேன் பேர்வழி என்று சொல்லியே மிகைப் படுத்தலில் ஈடுபடுவதை என்னென்பது. மெல்லிசை மன்னர் ஒரு படத்தைப் பார்க்கும் போது, பாடல் காட்சிகளைத் தவிர மற்ற காட்சிகளை மௌனமாகத் தானே பார்க்கிறார். அவர் அந்தப் படத்தை உள் வாங்காமல் நிரப்பும் வேலையை செய்வதாகக் கூறுவது.. எந்த அளவிற்கு அபத்தமான கூற்று. சொல்லப் போனால் அவர் மெல்லிசை மன்னரை மட்டும் சொல்ல வில்லை. இளையராஜாவிற்கு முன் என்று அனைவரையும் ஒரு சேர அல்லவா சொல்கிறார். மிகை உணர்ச்சி என்று புதியதாக சொல்கிறார்கள். உணர்ச்சி என்பதே உள்ளத்திலிருந்து உருவாவது. செயற்கையாக யாரும் உணர்ச்சி வசப் பட முடியாது. அப்படி இருக்கும் போது அதில் அளவு எங்கு உள்ளது. இசை என்பது உணர்வுகளைத் தட்டி எழுப்பக் கூடியது. உள்ளத்தை உருக்கும் இசையைக் கேட்டால் உணர்ச்சிகள் தானாகவே தூண்டப் படுகின்றன. மெல்லிசை மன்னர் வந்த பிறகு தான் மக்கள் பின்னணி இசையின் சிறப்பை உணரத் துவங்கினர்.
_________________
Visit my website for Viswanthan-Ramamurthi
http://mellisai.tripod.com
My blogs:
http://msvquiz.blogspot.com/
http://oldtamilfilmsongs.blogspot.com/
http://oldtamilfilms.blogspot.com/
http://mellisaititle.blogspot.com

[N Y MURALI]

Dear Friends,
Apart from reading the post by Jeyamohan, I also read some other post written by him in his blog. It is very clear that he says that he does not know anything about music and he started hearing music only from 80s. So his incompetence in understanding of the TFM before that period is understandable. But at the same time he wishfully states that he is giving his thoughts being a person in Cinema Industry for the past 7 years which is very critical that he needs to be at least shown in a sort of protest writing countering each point with proofs.

The critical area which is objectionable are
He says generally of MSV re recording are done by Joseph Krishna.
He says all music director before Ilayaraja have never understood the musical theme of the story line and were generally concentrating on personality based songs. I know MSV himself told in interviews that he never kept MGR or Sivaji in mind during composition but kept the character in mind for song composition.

I have already sent him a mail that we intent to send him a write up disputing the points with evidence provided he publishes in his blog. I shall wait for his reply. In case he does not reply we can at least show our points in this thread which we can consolidate as a write up and send him the mail.

I want to prepare the counter points in Tamil in which I have no proficiency. Can some body help?


N Y Murali

[vaidymsv]

Dear All,

I really didn't know how else to title this posting. Mr. Jayahoman who has claimed in his article that he has been listening to music since the 80's has accepted to the fact that he has missed out on the golden era of TFM since the 50's to the late 70's. It is really sad & unpardonable that a person who has no knowledge of TFM chose to write an article on the undisputed Emperor of melodies Shri. MSV. This also goes to prove that he has been only listening to mediocre music or should I say that he started listening to music from the time quality music became extinct!!!

While we have no objection for any individual's patronage of anyone's music, it is really derogatory on the part of Mr. Jayamohan to have made some claims which are far from facts. Shri. MSV has been in the industry for the past 6 decades and is probably the longest serving creator par excellence. Mr. Jayamohan would do well to refrain from writing half-baked information like this. Last but not the least, the article has been written in utter bad taste and makes us believe that it has probably been orchestrated by someone else for, a person who has taken on everyone in the industry appears to be an absolute novice and there is no way an experienced listener would ever write like this.

CHEERS

MSV IS MUSIC!!!

VAIDYMSV
_________________
vaidymsv

[Vatsan]

Friends, when u respond to him in his blog, please never reveal the fact that we come from the same forum. Never make references to any one of us in this forum as this will give the bloke a convenient opportunity to slap the tag of "Group fanaticism" on us and attribute a common agenda to stand against a vilification campaign against a "leader". We are not group of poster pasting workers working for a leader, with an ulterior motive of climbing any proverbial ladder. Just a note of caution. Thanks.
Probably this chap's next book is in the offing and he needs to whip up some publicity.

[N Y MURALI]

Dear Firends,
Giving below a link.


http://shajiwriter.blogspot.in/2010/01/ilayaraja-heights-and-depths.html


N Y Murali

[S.Balaji]

Dear NYM ,

I just wish to know one thing .........there will be countless blogs like these who will be either praising someone or criticising based on their understanding of music within their limitations.

Are we going to counter every such blogs with a response ?

I heard that this Jeyamohan always have a strategy before doing something....to gain popularity and hits to his blog so that everyone comes to know about him...

Earlier he had written something ridiculous about MGR and Sivaji and got severe reprimand from both the fans...

So, its very clear that there is a motive behind his writings .....

I would take it seriously if such a criticism comes from a someone who knows music , not from someone who has not heard music of the yesteryears......

Then why are we getting upset by some unscruplous persons who are craving for a space in the webworld ?

I agree with you that what he had mentioned about Joseph Krishna is not true 100% It could have happened at times when MSV must have been terribly busy. Otherwise, the article concentrates more about Ilayaraja.

Tomorrow, somebody else will write something about MSV. Are we going to counter that also !?

For those who feel offended, I am giving the link for another writer Mr.Shaji who had interviewed MSV :

http://shajiwriter.blogspot.in/2008/11/when-manayangathu-subramanyan.html

So, there are 2 sets of guys ! This Shaji also severely criticises Ilayaraja too

[N Y MURALI]

நண்பர்களே,
திரு ஜெயமோகன் அவர்கள் எழுதியுள்ளதை மேற்கோள் காட்டியிருக்கிறேன்.

"ஒட்டுமொத்தமாகப் பார்த்தால் முந்தைய தலைமுறை இசையமைப்பாளர்கள் படத்தின் கலைபூர்வ கட்டுமானத்தையும் உணர்ச்சிகரத்தையும் உருவாக்குவதில் பங்குபெற்றதே இல்லை.
முதல்படம் முதலே இளையராஜா இதற்கு நேர்மாறானவராக இருந்திருக்கிறார். எப்போதுமே அவர் படத்தை உருவாக்குபவர்களில் ஒருவர். கதையையும், சூழலையும் ,கதாபாத்திரங்களையும் முழுமையாகவும் துல்லியமாகவும் உள்வாங்குவதில் அவருக்கிருக்கும் திறன் அபூர்வமான ஒன்று"

இப்போது ஒரு உதாரணம் எடுத்துக்கொள்வோம். திரு இளையராஜா அவர்கள் இசை அமைத்த திருவாசகம் பாடல் ஒன்று "முத்து நற்றாமம் பூ மாலை சூடி" என்ற பாடல் 'பொற்சுண்ணம் இடித்தல் என்ற பகுதியில் வருகிறது. அதை மாணிக்கவாசகர் இறைவன் புகழை, பெண்கள் நீராடும் பொழுது இடிக்கும் சுன்னப்பொடியை இடித்துக்கொண்டே பாடுவது போல எழுதியிருக்கிறார். இதை தற்குறிப்பேற்றல் அணி என்று சொல்வார்கள். எனவே அதை பாடுபவர்கள் பெண்கள தான் இருக்க முடியும்.
திரு MSV அவர்கள் இந்த பாடலை இசை அமைக்கும் பொழுது பெண்கள் குரலை தான் பயன்படுத்தி இருக்கிறார். அனால் திரு இளையராஜா அவர்கள் இந்த பாடலில் பெண்கள் குரலோடு ஆண்கள் குரலையும் பயன்படுத்தி இருக்கிறார்.
நம் பண்பாட்டில் என்றாவது ஆண்கள் சுன்னப்பொடி இடித்தார்கள் என்று கேள்வி பட்டதுண்டா? இந்த அடிப்படை உண்மையை திரு இளையராஜா புரிந்து கொள்ளாதது ஆச்சரியமே !!
இந்த பாடலையே பின் ஒருவர் படமாக்கம் செயதால் என்ன ஆகும்? பெண்களோடு சேர்ந்து ஆண்களும் சுன்னப்பொடியை இடிப்பது போல தானே படமாக்க வேண்டும்.
இப்போது மேற்சொன்ன மேற்கோளை திரும்ப படியுங்கள். திரு இளையராஜா அவர்கள் எந்த அளவு பாடல் வரிகளிருந்து காட்சியை புரிந்து இசை அமைத்திருக்கிறார் என்று விளங்கும்.

N Y Murali

[N Y MURALI]

Dear Balaji,
I also feel that this guy does not need any response from us. What I wanted to share his how half baked information are floated in web. What we can do is to write our article in our site by our friends countering each point. So tomorrow it could clarify the truth for the general public.

N Y Murali

[madhuraman]

Dear Friends,

If at all the services of Shri.JosephKrishna were availed of for BGM scores on occasions, it was legitimate since JK was MSV's assistant.
How is it MSV's services were requisitioned by IR when MSV was independent? DOES IT NOT MEAN THAT LIEUTENANTS OF that MD WERE unmistakably inadequate to the task? Unfortunately this information was improperly projected in a section of the press, disturbing a fan of MSV who attempted to end his life.

How MSV IR worked together for movies is a good pointer to the mutual appreciation they have. Sometimes in an attempt to adore someone people lose balance and project vituperation. Let us not attach values to half-baked statements; lest we should lower our status as knowledgeable admirers of quality works.
Warm regards K.Raman Madurai.
_________________
Prof. K. Raman
Mumbai

[N Y MURALI]

அன்புள்ள ஜெயமோகன் அவர்களுக்கு,
நலமா? . ஆகும்பே சந்திப்பில் சரியாகப் பேசமுடியாமல் போய்விட்டது பரவாயில்லை. மற்றொருமுறை அமையும்.
இளையராஜாவின் இசைப் பிரபலம் பற்றி ஒரு சந்தேகம் உண்டு. இளையராஜாவின் இசை ஆளுமைகளைப் ப‌ற்றிக் குறைத்து மதிப்பிடுபவன் அல்ல. இசை நுணுக்கங்களைப் பற்றி எனக்கு ஏதும் தெரியாது. இளையராஜாவிற்கு முன் கேவிமகாதேவன், எம்எஸ்வி போன்றோர்களின் இசை அந்த சமயத்தில் மிக மேம்பட்டே இருந்திருக்கிறது. இளையராஜாவின் காலத்தில் விஎஸ் நரசிம்மன், தேவேந்திரன், டிராஜேந்தர்(?) போன்றவர்கள் இருந்திருக்கிறார்கள். ஏஆர் ரகுமான் வருகை வரை இளையராஜாவின் இசை ராஜ்ஜியம் குறையாமல் இருந்திருக்கிறது.. ஆனால் இளையராஜாவின் இசை பற்றியே பொதுவெளியில் அதிகம் பேசுகிறோம். இளையராஜாவின் இசைத் திறமைகளைப் பற்றி அதிகப் படுத்திக்கொள்கிறோமா என நான் அடிக்கடி நினைப்பதுண்டு.
இளையராஜாவின் இசை மட்டுமே நமக்குப் பிடித்தமானதாக எப்போதும் இருந்திருக்கிறது. ஏன்? இது பிரமையா அல்லது நிஜமாலுமே அவரது இசை நம்மைக் கட்டிவைத்துவிட்டதா? எம்ஜியார், ரஜினி போன்று பிரபல்யங்கள் மீதான ஈர்ப்பு போன்ற ஒன்றா இது? நரசிம்மன், தேவேந்திரன் போன்றோர்களின் இசையை வேண்டுமென்றே நாம் இருட்டடிப்பு செய்வதாகத் தோன்றுகிறது. சிலரை உதாசீனப்படுத்தி ஒருவரை வேண்டுமென்றே தூக்கிப்பிடிப்பது ஞாயமாகவும் படவில்லை. இந்த எண்ணம் உங்களுக்கும் ஏற்பட்டிருக்கும். நீங்கள் என்ன நினைக்கிறீர்கள்.
அன்புடன்
கே.ஜே.அசோக்குமார்.

This was the questions asked by Mr. Ashok Kumar and was answered by Jeyamohan which resulted in the web page write up.

Now we will try to answer the same.

You all will agree that during MSV-TKR or KVM times their songs were broadcast only in radio. The songs wee sold in the LP record also but to buy and maintain a LP record was not affordable to many. The Music Directors hence had only the royalty coming from the radio broadcasts.

Whereas during IR times the audio cassettes came. The cassettes are so cheap compared to the LP records and to buy and maintain a tape recorder was not that difficult. This increased the market base for the cinema songs. For the first time you have music as a large marketable commodity. Unlike the radio where you cannot control the songs played by them, and hence you cannot control the flow of royalty.

Whereas in the case of audio cassettes apart from the money you make as a music director for a movie you can also own, sell the copy rights to an audio company and make money. Since it had become the market, the more no of cassettes you sell the more money you make.You cannot popularize an audio cassette based on the popularity of actors or director. That can be made only with the popularity and the image of the music director for an audio cassettes of movie. So you had mushrooming of many audio cassettes distribution companies and audio shops in every street with the banner showing IR.
During that time I asked one of the audio shop why they are not showing the photos of MSV-TKR for which he said that they get their banners from the audio distribution company and they are not spending money on that.

More popularity comes from the image. So you have to create stories that can enhance your image. So came the stories like introducing new ragas like Reedhigowlai or Lalitha, 3 notes scale compositions, Counter Point, Bach, Beethovan etc.

There was also a parallel new product came in the market called Key Board. Many of us know that prior to introduction of Key Board the people learning music was very less. Because it is very difficult to learn instruments like Veena, Violin or flute.
I have tried all these three instruments.You have to have perseverance and practice to master these instruments. Where as learning a Key Board is much easier. So with the introduction of Key Board , many music schools started creeping up. The music you will study in the Key Board will be generally Wetsern. You all know that IR was using Western Classical orchestral arrangement and Carnatic ragas for the melody. So naturally being a contemporary music director of that period, the students apart from learning Western Claasical music would also practice his songs. That was because the best way to portray your knowledge in music is start a Light Music orchestra.

Why I am telling this is that, I myself learnt Key Board only for 3 months. But I learnt only because I was able to compose some songs on my own and thought learning a Key Board would enhance my ability to remember my composition and perform better. Whereas my friend Saikumar learnt Key Baord only to start Orchestra.

I composed 3 devotional albums. The first one named Krishnarpanam, I sold it to AVM Audio. The money I got was Rs. 1750/ against my total expenses of Rs. 12500/. Of course I cannot expect anything more and the deal that my first audio cassette was distributed by AVM audio itself is a best deal for me.
The second one I tried to sell on my own. It was on Lord Iyyappa and I could sell and recover Rs. 15000/ out of Rs. 22000/ which cost me. I remember I bought empty audio cassettes for Rs. 3. recorded bulk with master for Rs. 3, incurred wrapper expenses for Rs. 2 and sold the cassettes for Rs. 25/ in during Iyyappan season. Why I am narrating this is to make you understand how easy it was for an individual to produce and distribute an audio cassettes. Had it been LP record I could not have done that.

My 3rd album was with Madras Recording Co (Sargam Cassettes). With my experience of the two earlier Sargam have agreed to produce and distribute the 3rd album with one condition. The condition was that all the songs have to be sung by Shri K Veeramani who had a great Image and demand for devotional cassettes. The total deal was Rs. 20000/ and I had to shell out the entire money to KV and his orchestra and spent additional Rs.5000/ from my pocket. Sargam had sold atleast 15000 cassettes and you can imagine the money they would have made in those times. The cassettes front wrapper contained Shri Veeramani Photo. Myself and lyric writer photo appeared on the inside cover because we demanded it during the deal. So 15000 cassettes sold was not because of my music but because of Shri K Veeramani and he had that image. This is the fact. I cannot deny. I am happy that today that album is in the online listing of Sa Re Ga Ma.

Why I am saying all these things is that the business increases with the image. So you can imagine the case with IR where all these factors would have proved very important for his career. So image build up started from there. That is done by Public Relations. Who will do the PR? The people who have stake will do the PR.

But I must clarify here that I am not trying to say that IR enjoyed all these favorable factors without talent. His talent is well know and appreciated by every body including me. But I must also point here that in case if any other person other than IR, would have also been projected like that even if he had less talent.

Now since IR enjoyed a favorable factor, it is quite natural that it also passes on to others when they gain prominence. That happened to ARR. Since ARR was not only involved in South but also Bollywood and Hollywood he his getting international prominence.

But the same people who hither to enjoyed the favorable factors are crying foul !!!.

To conclude..

Now the question is whether IR is glorified more than what he deserves. I must say that he is glorified and will be glorified up to the point he will be in the market and the glorification would be to the extent of the stake.

Now another question comes to my mind. How come now MSV is getting some prominence in TV channels (that they are organizing music competition like MSV songs etc, many private channels are broadcasting mainly his songs)? This is because of the fact that his songs have undergone the test of time.

Now will the same happen for IR also? Yes. Once he calls it a day then all these factors will end. And then the real stock taking will happen. That will be based on his songs undergoing test of time.

Until such time we can wait and watch the Tamashas created by people like Jeyamohan.

Thanks,

N Y Murali.

[Venugopalan Soundararajan]

Dear Friends,

First of all, please excuse me for the delayed response.

Who is this Jeyamohan? Does he really know anything about Music, that is quality music? Most of his comments appear to be வெறும் பிதற்றல். Look at some of his statements like “பல படங்களில் இசை சம்பந்தமில்லாமல் இருக்கும்", "முந்தைய தலைமுறை இசையமைப்பாளர்களுக்கு திரையிசை என்றால் பாடல்கள் மட்டுமே. ஆகவே பாடல்களுக்கும் பின்னணி இசைக்கும் இடையே பிரம்மாண்டமான வேறுபாடு இருப்பதைக் காணலாம்", "ஒட்டு மொத்தமாகப் பார்த்தால் முந்தைய தலைமுறை இசையப்பாளர்கள் படத்தின் கலைபூர்வ கட்டுமானத்தையும் உணர்ச்சிகரத்தையும் உருவாக்குவதில் பங்கு பெற்றதே இல்லை", etc.

Make him to sit and watch just one movie, i.e. "நெஞ்சம் மறப்பதில்லை", for him to learn what is music - i.e. songs as well as background score.

How many movies has he watched that have the unforgettable music of MSV, i.e. songs as well as the background score? Does he realize the limitations with which MSV had to work, viz. small and unsophisticated recording theatres, single track recording which needed the immaculate co-ordination of the entire orchestra and the singers, failing which you had to start right from the beginning. We have heard that for songs like "எங்கே நிம்மதி" and "பட்டத்து ராணி" (to name a few), the massive orchestra consisting of close to 100 violins had to be seated in Halls away from the recording theatre, extending a cable and the musicians had to perform by looking at signals.

Mr Jeyamohan states "பெரும்பாலான சமயங்களில் அந்தப் படத்துக்காக அவர்கள் போட்ட ஒரு பாடலை இயக்குனர்கள் 'தீம் மியூசிக்' ஆகப் பயன்படுத்திக்கொள்வது வழக்கம்". MSV has never used any song for the theme music of the respective movie. On the contrary, IR has used the theme music of a movie to compose a song of another movie. For example the tune of the song “ஒரு கோவிலில் இரு தீபங்கள்“ (movie: பெண் ஜன்மம்) was the theme music he used in the movie “பத்ரகாளி”. He has done similarly for some other songs too.

Joseph Krishna started assisting MSV only in the 70s. Before that, it was R.Govardhanam and Henry Daniel. Most of MSV's best background scores were for the movies of the 60s. Then where is the question of Joseph Krishna doing the background scores for MSV? Utter non-sense.

I think, we should take such non-sense seriously only if it has come from some one who really knows music. But it is not the case with Mr Jeyamohan, who I repeat has come out with some “பிதற்றல்“. So, let’s ignore such unscrupulous elements and carry on with our good work of highlighting the greatness of our Master.

While on the topic of IR, I still laugh at a joke cracked by IR at the audio launch event of the movie “நீதானே என் பொன் வசந்தம்” where he repeatedly said “ஒரு பாடல் மாதிரி இன்னொரு பாடல் இருக்கக் கூடாது, அதுதான் எனக்கு மிகவும் முக்கியம்". In most of his compositions, we can find the resemblance of 9 other songs. Then, what did he really mean by the above? Only Mr Jeyamohan can answer!!

Music means MSV. Long live MSV and his mesmerizing music.

Regards,
Venu Soundar

[madhuraman]

Dear Mr. Venu,
First of all the half-baked contender does not deserve any response, as he has presumptuous attitudes.
Of your various citations to MSV's WORK UNDER LIMITATIONS",

YOU COULD HAVE ADDED
'Live recording' of songs which stay with life after several decades. He has been one MD who insists on live recording even now. There are umpteen instances of MSV spotting an error from a specific player even if the orchestra had a 5 layer violin complement. Also all singers have faithfully acknowledged that 'we give out just 10% of what MSV taught'.

MSV has made quite complex orchestrations that make it hard on stage orchestra to replay those notes with subtle touches. These are not discernible to people who have no idea of the demanding situations of yester decades.

So let us just ignore idiocy from any quarter.

Warm regards K.Raman Madurai.
_________________
Prof. K. Raman
Mumbai