"MSV CLUB" - The Discussion Forum of MSVTimes.com
Official Website of M.S.Viswanathan - Legendary Indian Composer
 
 FAQFAQ   SearchSearch   MemberlistMemberlist   UsergroupsUsergroups   RegisterRegister 
 ProfileProfile   Log in to check your private messagesLog in to check your private messages   Log inLog in 

MSV keeps the distance!
Goto page 1, 2  Next
 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    "MSV CLUB" - The Discussion Forum of MSVTimes.com Forum Index -> Preludes, Interludes, Title Music, Re-recording, BGMs
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
parthavi
Philiac


Joined: 15 Jan 2007
Posts: 702
Location: Chennai

PostPosted: Wed Jan 07, 2009 1:13 am    Post subject: MSV keeps the distance! Reply with quote

I once listened to MD Deva's interview in a TV channel when he explained his experience of sharing his composition with MSV. MSV offered one correction. The song had a word 'Angey (there).' MSV felt that the note for the song seemed to indicate 'ingey (here)' rather than 'angey,'and he also sugested how it could be changed. Deva sang both versions, as he had originally composed and as changed by MSV. I was stunned. The music speaks! I thought that MSV was possessed of Music. (isai engira pei avarai pidiththirukkirathu!)

I have observed his meticulus depiction of distance in a few songs, which I would like to share.I am sure many of you are already aware of this. My sharing is like a child sharing what it discovered with the parents, as if it is telling something to the parents which they don't konw.(The parents,of course will pretend as if they are learning from the child!)

1) Adho andha paravai pola vaazha vendum
Idho indha alaigal pola aada vendum.
We can observe that 'adho' has a rising pitch (AarohaNam?) and 'idho 'a falling pitch (avarohaNam)

2) In pon ondru kaNden peNN angu illai, the first charanam ends with the line 'viNnodu viLaiyaadum peNN andha peNN allavo?

Listen to 'viNNodu'. The pitch goes up. After all the 'viNN' is so far above and the PeNN is on the earth!

Now contrast this with 'viNNodum mughilodum viLaiyadum veNNilave' Here all the words are in the same pitch. This is because, viNN, mughil and veNNilavu are all at the same level (not scientifically, but as is normaly perceived by us)!

3) 'Bhoomiyil iruppathum vaanaththil parappadhum avaravar ennangaLe' (Shanthi Nilayam) Here a peculiar thing is Bhoomiyil is in high pitch and vaanaththil is in low pitch! This is because the person who sings this is flying! He is in the vaanam. So, vaanam is nearer to him and the earth is far off. We can write a lot on this song alone. This so excellently portrays a sense of flying. If we observe the interlude which has a huming and a floating orchestaral flow, we can sense this. Mr.SR Shankar can perhaps elaborate on this, since he captures and presents these kinds of subtleties so nicely.

There could be (should be) several other examples like this.T hese few came to my mind. Some people may poohpooh this saying that this is all far-fetched (when I shared a subtle meaning of a line from Kamba Ramayanam with a friend of mine, he dismissed it saying that the poet might not have thought of this and these are things imagined by us!). Because these things are so meticulous, people will think that things just happened the way they are. But Deva's testimony will prove that MM has a mind so sharply tuned to music . MSV's music itself is created like a poetry with a lot of intricate constructions.

The man who keeps a close watch on matter and meter will obviously mesure the 'meters' (distance) also while composing. But this keeping a distance brings him closer to the hearts of the audience
_________________
P Rengaswami (9381409380)
MSV, Un isai kettaal puvi asainthaadum, idhu iraivan arul aagum.
http://msv-music.blogspot.in/
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Yahoo Messenger
N Y MURALI
Maniac


Joined: 16 Nov 2008
Posts: 920
Location: CHENNAI

PostPosted: Wed Jan 07, 2009 7:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

DEAR PRATHAVI,

WHAT AN EXTRAORDINARY ANALYSIS. I VOUCH YOUR VIEW FULLY. INFACT TO ADD TO MORE WEIGHT TO YOUR APPROACH I WANTED TO ADD 2 MORE SONGS.

LAST SUNDAY WHEN YOU ALL CAME TO MY HOUSE VATSAN TOLD ABUT THE SONG ' AH AH AH ORAAYIRAM NAADAGAM AADINAAL' SUNG BY P SUSHEELA IN THE MOVIE IN SUMADI EN SUNDRI. HE EXPLAINED THAT THE PICTURISATION WAS IN A HILLY VALLEY SO CAME THIS 'AH AH AH' AND THE SINGING OF THE WORD 'ORAAYIRAM' IS ACTUALLY LIKE 'OORAAAAYIRUM NAADAGAM' GIVING THE EFFECT OF THE WAVES OF THE WIND.

I WANTED TO ADD ONE MORE SONG TO THIS LIST. 'ANGE VARUVADU YAROO' IN THE MOVIE NETRU INDRU NAALAI WHERE AS RIGHTLY POINTED BY YOU REG THE MD DEVA EXP THE WORD 'ANGE' IS SUNG WITH A FORCE TO GIVE EFFECT OF THE DISTANCE.

LOT OF PEOPLE UNDERESTIMATE MSV'S KNOWLEDGE ABOUT LYRICS AND WORDS. I WANT TO QUOTE ONE EXAMPLE FROM MY PERSONAL MUSICAL PATH.

WHEN MSV PRESIDED MY 1 ST DEVOTIONAL ALBUM RELEASE NA KAMARASAN WAS ALSO ONE AMONG THE INVITEE. DURING THE SPEECH HE QUOTED ONE INSTANCE FROM SOME SONG I DO NOT REMEMBER BUT THE CRUX OF THE MATTER IS WHEN KANNADSAN WROTE THE LYRICS OF A SONG HE ALSO WROTE A 'THOGAYARAA' AND WANTED MSV TO TUNE THAT ALSO. MSV NOW COMPOSED THE TUNE FOR THE 'THOGAYRAA' AND TOLD THAT THE METER OF THE 'THOGAYARAA IS NOT MATCHING WITH SONG ALREADY COMPOSED AND WANTED A SLIGHT CHANGE . I WILL QUOTE WHAT KAMARASAN TOLD 'ADHARKKU KAVINGAR SONNAR, 'ADA PAAVI, INDHA THOGAYARAA NAAN EZHIDHIYADHU ILLAIYADA, ADHU THIRUVALLUVAR EZHUDHIYA THIRUKKURAL'. THIS ALL FOLLOWED BY A LAUGHTER AMONG THE AUDIENCE.

OFCOURE MR. KAMARASAN FOLLOWED AS WHAT HE WANTED TO CONVEY WAS MSV DEEP OBSESSION TO MUSIC ONLY AND NOT OTHER THINGS. BUT IF HE WOULD HAVE EXPERIANCED THE ASPECTS ABOUT WHAT WE ARE DISCUSSING HE WOULD HAVE QUOTED SOME OTHER INSTANCE TO PRAISE MSV.

HE ALSO USED THAT OPPOTUNITY TO PLAY 'JALRAA' TOWARDS ILLAYARAAJA. THE ALBUM WAS RELEASED AROUD 1985 WHEN ILLAYARAJA WAS ONE OF THE MAIN DOMINATING FORCE IN TFM. SO HE SAID 'ILLAYARAJA MUSIC IS LIKE THUNDER AND IT IS FELT ALL ACROSS THE WORLD. ILLAYARAJA HIMSELF ONCE TOLD THAT HIS INSPIRATION IS MSV. SEE HOW HE CLEVERLY USED THE PROGRAMME TO PLAY 'JAALRA' WHERE DRAGING OF ILARARAJAS NAME WAS UNNECESSARY.

IF HE HAD SHOWN THE INGENIUNITY IN HIS FORTH COMING SONGS IN THE MOVIES PROBABILY WE COULD HAVE GOT BETTER SONG THAN 'MANE MANE MANE. UNNAI THANE'

N Y MURALI
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
parthavi
Philiac


Joined: 15 Jan 2007
Posts: 702
Location: Chennai

PostPosted: Wed Jan 07, 2009 7:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

True Mr.Murali. There was another incident quoted by MSV himself. It was during the early stages of Viswanathan-Ramamurthy and Kannadaasan association and they were yet to become friends. MSV wanted one word in the lyric to be changed. He also suggested the change. I don't remember the word but both words mean the same - Kavignar's word was in pure Tamil and the word MSV suggested had a Sanskrit origin but it was a commonly used word in Tamil. Kaignar protested at this change. At that time Udumalai Narayana Kavi was there and he endorsed MSV's suggestion. Kavignar had to yield because Udumalai was much senior to him in the field and Kavignar was yet to become the dominany lyricist of the film world. MSV won't compromise on music. No wonder, he suggested a change in TirukkuraL!
_________________
P Rengaswami (9381409380)
MSV, Un isai kettaal puvi asainthaadum, idhu iraivan arul aagum.
http://msv-music.blogspot.in/
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Yahoo Messenger
Vatsan
The Fervent


Joined: 20 Jan 2007
Posts: 352

PostPosted: Wed Jan 07, 2009 2:05 pm    Post subject: EOP Reply with quote

What about engEyOOOOOOO pArthha mugam .....
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
N Y MURALI
Maniac


Joined: 16 Nov 2008
Posts: 920
Location: CHENNAI

PostPosted: Wed Jan 07, 2009 4:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

DEAR VATSAN

'INDHA PATTAI ENGEYOOOOOOOO KETTA MADHIRI IRUKKE?

N Y MURALI
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
Damodaran Pachaiappan
The Ardent


Joined: 21 Oct 2007
Posts: 119
Location: Ireland

PostPosted: Thu Jan 08, 2009 2:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dear Mr.Murali, Mr.Parthavi and Mr.Shankar

How about the timeless classic - Engey Nimmadhi. ? This song is full of question mark, exclamation mark and all type of punctuation in addition to the sense of "distance" - all conveyed by the music. Mellisai Maamannar is the only person on earth who can compose music even for punctuation marks! As Mr.Shankar says , MSV the great has no equal when it comes to infusing life into any lyric . His skill at giving three dimension to songs is unparalleled.

By the way the song you have quoted from Sumadhi en Sundari is a stunner. When you listen to the song, you feel you are sitting on a vantage point amidst the plantations ( tea or coffee - I am not sure ) and that a nightingale is singing to you.

Perhaps, there is also a FOURTH dimension to the music of Sangeetha Saraswathy MSV which is why people like us have become addicted to his work!

Thank you
_________________
Dr.Damodaran Pachaiappan
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Yahoo Messenger MSN Messenger
N Y MURALI
Maniac


Joined: 16 Nov 2008
Posts: 920
Location: CHENNAI

PostPosted: Fri Jan 09, 2009 6:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

DEAR SRS
I READ IN A MAGAZINE 25 YEARS BACK THAT THIS SONG 'AGAYAPANDALILE' HAS A UNIQUE DISTINCTION. IT IS THE SONG WHICH HAD SECOND LARGEST NO OF VIOLINS AFTER 'ENGE NIMMADHI'.
REG THE RAAGA I DOUBT IT IS IN MADYAMAVATHI. GIVE ME SOME TIME. I SHALL PLAY AND GET BACK TO YOU.

N Y MURALI
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
Sai Saravanan
Philiac


Joined: 10 Jun 2008
Posts: 631
Location: Hyderabad

PostPosted: Mon Feb 16, 2009 11:13 pm    Post subject: Not only distance... Reply with quote

Dear all,
It is just not the 'distance' feeling alone, but many more feelings are beautifully expressed in pronouncing certain words in MM's songs. For example, the style of walk of the lady is described in "kaanchi pattuduthi kasturi...": when the singer is asked to pronounce "nee nadandu varavendum", we get the feeling of the dancing footsteps. When you listen the marvel "ninaivaale silai seithu", we can feel the "unakkaaaaga" caressing into our hearts. Much more than all the songs sung by different singers, the songs sung by MM himself exudes in variety of feelings: we can always 'feel' the words.
I am often reminded by the famous "Ode to a nightingale" by John Keats. The poet had a strange sense of "seeing" where a rare power possessed him to achieve a transformation of poetry into vision. Similarly, we are blessed indeed to 'feel' the imagination of the poet, music director, and the singers, the moment we listen to the words made to be pronounced by MM. Each and every song has this magic in it!
Sai Saravanan
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
madhuraman
Devotee


Joined: 11 Jun 2007
Posts: 1226
Location: navimumbai

PostPosted: Tue Feb 17, 2009 6:35 am    Post subject: Preludes and Interludes Reply with quote

Dear Dr.Sai Saravanan,

You are absolutely right in your observation on how MSV infuses greater value to lyric phrases , words and even syllables by a technique he has mastered for conveying more meaning than was intended by the lyricist.
For instance in the "Kalai kovil"song 'thanga radham vandhashu" at one of the repeats of pallavi, MSV has made Dr.BM Krishna sing the word 'thanga' as 'tha nga' giving the dimension that the radham wants to stay [of course in the mind] - glorious tribute to the song by articulate stretching of the word. Also in 'muthukkaLo kaNgaL' look at how the lyric line is exploited to pack greater impact in rendering 'virundhu kAetpadhenna adhaiyum viraindhu kaetpadhe nna aa?
The word 'viraindhu' is rendered in quick pace to indicate the haste in mind. Infact between 'virundhu and Viraindhu' the longer word is delivered quicker adding that element of poetic punch to a telling effect. Again in 'vAzzhai thOraNa mELaththOdu poojai seivadhenna aa?' 'vAzhai is stretched greater than 'poojai' adding greater value to the lyric and the impact that TMS creates at the spot 'vazhai' is beyond the limitations of descriptions. Also in 'mAdhamo AavaNi' [ "u u va"], the lyric phrase 'endrO oru nAL eNNIya eNNam , ilai vittadhenna.... upto the aalap tha nanna tha nana nna' and 'kodai thandha vaLLal kuri vaithu mella kooda vandhadhenna aa , koo da vandha dhenna aa?' each word in all lyric phrases has been sung with an impactful stretch or compression or with a punchy repeat set to to a totally different time scale.There are innumerable instances of such musical interpretations of mood by MSV. In this art, MSV is generations ahead of other MDs.
Thank you for the opportunity, A separate thread on this would not be out of place.
Warm regards Prof.K.Raman Madurai.
_________________
Prof. K. Raman
Mumbai
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
N Y MURALI
Maniac


Joined: 16 Nov 2008
Posts: 920
Location: CHENNAI

PostPosted: Tue Feb 17, 2009 8:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dear Prof and All,
In the song 'Muthukkalo Kangal' when TMS sings the word 'muthukkalo kangal?' we can sense the musical phrasing as questening. When PS sings the line "muthukkale pengal' we can find out the phrasing as a statement.

N Y MURALI
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
parthavi
Philiac


Joined: 15 Jan 2007
Posts: 702
Location: Chennai

PostPosted: Tue Feb 17, 2009 9:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Take the song 'Aayiram iravugal varuvathmdu' from Karpagam.

After the lines,
vayathil varuvathu ekkam
athu vandhaal varaathu.........
Thookkam

(Typical Valli lines even at the beginning of this career. Vaali has revealed how MSV cajoled KSG to give at least one song to Vaali, a newbie at the time and then continued the bargain to get him three songs in that film!)

Why is there a gap after 'varaathu' and before 'Thokaam'?

Because sleep is elusive. Sleep will not come easily. It has to be dragged in.

That's why, there is a gap. Sleep comes only after some time.

Another example of MSV keeping the 'distance,' the word 'distance' having different connotations.

There is no wonder that many have reported better enjoyment of MSV's songs while being alone in the late night (though this could be true of music in general) because, we are able to experience these subtle dimensions, when we are alone, with our self.
_________________
P Rengaswami (9381409380)
MSV, Un isai kettaal puvi asainthaadum, idhu iraivan arul aagum.
http://msv-music.blogspot.in/
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Yahoo Messenger
Ramesh.P
The Ardent


Joined: 07 Dec 2006
Posts: 177
Location: Chennai

PostPosted: Tue Feb 17, 2009 12:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

OORUNAL IRAVAIL KAN URAKKAM PIDIKKAVILLAI.
VARUVAAN KANNAN and again VARUVAAAAN . This stretch shows lot of meaning to me(like ekkam etc). Amazing song which has all elements.
Nobody can imagine this kind of composistion. We have already discussed lot about this song but if listen now you can find new things and write more.

regards
ramesh
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Yahoo Messenger
Baskar CS
Addict


Joined: 19 May 2007
Posts: 203

PostPosted: Tue Feb 17, 2009 5:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

this is what i wonder at master . how he fills the gap in a song and it sets well to the mood ,situation and the character

in stretching oru naaaaaaaaaaal iravu it conveys the feeling of her MAN ,her love and hopes jelled with ecstasy for a joyous world

the instruments only kindles her feelings and speaks when the words does not

put it short when singer stops instrment speaks

it is just not a composition or a song of of what he does .

he squeezes himself for a wonderful product . but does he really or it comes just like that for him.

great
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
N Y MURALI
Maniac


Joined: 16 Nov 2008
Posts: 920
Location: CHENNAI

PostPosted: Tue Feb 17, 2009 7:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dear all,
MSV infuses emotion in the delivery of the musical note. This he achieves by many ideas. One aspect is this extension of the words. If we see this aspect this is not artificial. This happens to us day in day out in our life while we speak. We do not notice the tone of our words when we speak. For instance when a person asks us to identify an object which is far away we always say in Tamil ‘adhoo’ and not ‘adho’. This is what he did in the song ‘adhoo andha paravai pola’.

The other MDS concentrate on the ragas and the swarams whereas he concentrates on the emotion and not raga. For him if the emotions are infused then any raga would do the job. That is why he can create a joyful song in an otherwise in ‘sivaranjani’ the ‘sober raga’ for others MDS but for him this is just another musical phrase.

The bottom line is
The other MDS look natural things artificially in the music sense.

MSV looks natural things naturally in the music sense.

N Y MURALI.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
N Y MURALI
Maniac


Joined: 16 Nov 2008
Posts: 920
Location: CHENNAI

PostPosted: Wed Feb 18, 2009 7:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dear Mr. S R SHANKAR,

When you said that the movie 'Maroo charithraa' ran for one year I do not know whether it is in Andhra. But it ran for one year in Chennai in 'Aanand' theatre and the regular goers for the movie were college students. This was the first Telugu movie I saw. I remember the song but very little. I also remember other songs like 'bale bale maha bale'. There is a lift song it is the same? There is one more brilliant melody in the raga 'Ammer Kalyani' the wrods I have forgotten. Your correct when you said that the Sivaranchani song has helped LP to tune for the HINDI version.

In the same way the song 'Naan pesa ninaippadellam' which is also in the same raga has helped Naushad to tune the song 'Mera pyar hai' for the Hindi version.

The problem of wrting about this song is in my understanding of the lanuguage Telugu. If you could write the song with meaning then I can try. Because with out the meaning of the words we cannot understand what emotions he has infused in the tune. You should also help me to identify the link of the site so that I can hear the song. Because it is long time I have heard the song.

Regards,

N Y MURALI
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic    "MSV CLUB" - The Discussion Forum of MSVTimes.com Forum Index -> Preludes, Interludes, Title Music, Re-recording, BGMs All times are GMT + 5.5 Hours
Goto page 1, 2  Next
Page 1 of 2

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum


Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group