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madhuraman
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 26, 2007 8:01 pm    Post subject: Singers- KJJ Reply with quote

DEAR Mr.Raghavan,
I do not intend saying that KJ J adores MSV.But in interviews he recalls the value of MSV to music. KJ J is guilty of poor pronunciations and can not blame it on MD. Apart from Therukoil, he has contributed SENDHOORA BHENDHAM instead of Sendhhora BHANDHAM in the same movie[A Kadali]. Another piece of KJJ was Pillai thamizh pronounced exactly as in Pillow. Every time, KJJ can not cite excuses. A singer has to muster the right styles of pronunciation for every language. So, Mr TVV R, I respect your views and my reference to KJJ was in relative consideration of what some others do to MSV in programmes, nothing more.
Warm regards Prof.K.Raman Navi Mumbai.
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VaidyMSV & Sriram Lax
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 30, 2007 10:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

dear all

to bring back all of us back to subject ,

i donot know how all missed a song , which headed the top list in makkal vangi's listeners request for many weeks in ceylon radio , a song described by abdul hameed as a song of the decade

an imayam of song ,

gangai yamunai inguthan sangamam .from film imayam

also intha ulagukkum vetkamillai - from yarukkum vetkamillai , a cho's movie .
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Sriram Kannan
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 30, 2007 11:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dear Vijay Krishnan,

I think our EMPEROR is not the MD for "Yaarukkum Vekkamillai", but G.K. Venkatesh.. I have heard that's the only Cho movie, our EMPEROR not worked.
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saradhaa_sn
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 30, 2007 1:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sriram Kannan wrote:
Dear Vijay Krishnan,

I think our EMPEROR is not the MD for "Yaarukkum Vekkamillai", but G.K. Venkatesh.. I have heard that's the only Cho movie, our EMPEROR not worked.


Dear Sriram...

On seeing your post I checked with Master's filmography. This movie is NOT there.
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saradhaa_sn
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 30, 2007 1:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ஒருமுறை தொலைக்காட்சியில், பிரபலங்களுடைய (வெளியுலகத்துக்கு பரிச்சயமில்லாத) அவர்களின் வாழ்க்கைத்துணை பற்றி அவர்கள் பகிர்ந்துகொள்ளும் (கிட்டத்தட்ட ஒரு நேர்காணல் மாதிரியான) ஒரு நிகழ்ச்சியைக்காண நேரிட்டது. பல பிரபலங்களும் அதில் தனித்தனியாக பங்கேற்றனர். அதில் பங்கேற்ற கே,ஜே.யேசுதாஸ், தன்னுடைய மனைவியைப்பற்றி மிகவும் புகழ்ந்து பேசினார். பாட்டு ஒன்றிலேயே தான் மூழ்கியிருக்க காரணம், தனக்கு குடும்பத்தைப்பற்றி எந்தக் கவலையுமில்லாமல் தன் மனைவி பார்த்துக்கொண்டதுதான் என்றார். (அவர் மனைவியும் உடனிருந்தார்).

எல்லாவற்றையும் சொல்லி முடிக்கும்போது அவர் ஒன்றைக்குறிப்பிட்டார். "நான் மிகவும் அனுபவித்துப்பாடிய பாடல் ஒன்றை மதிப்புக்குரிய எம்.எஸ்.வி சார் எனக்கு தந்தார். அந்தப்பாடலை அவர் எனக்குத்தராமல் வேறு யாரையாவது பாட வைத்திருந்தால் நான் வருத்தப்பட்டிருப்பேன்" என்று சொல்லி விட்டு அந்தப்பாடலைப் பாடிக்காட்டினார். அது 'மன்மத லீலை'யில் வந்த........

"மனைவி அமைவதெல்லாம் இறைவன் கொடுத்த வரம்".
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VaidyMSV & Sriram Lax
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 30, 2007 6:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

dear sriram

I stand corrected

thnaks
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Venkat
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 19, 2008 1:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Some more...

Ninnaye rathiendru ninaikirenadi...(Kanne Kaniamudhe)
Oru bommalattam nadakudhu romba pudhumayaga irukudhu...
Chinnanchiru kiliye kannamma selvakalanjiyame...
(Sattam oru vilayattu. MSV has tuned diffrently for this Bharathiar's song)
Malai ponnana malai suga velai nee vantha... (Nilave Malare)
All the above are from SA Chandrasekaran movies.

Kai veesamma veesu kanne.... (Ammavum neeye appavum neeye)

Oviyathai maraithu vaika... (I think Kizhakum merkum santhikindrana)
In this movie one very nice VJ song is there.
Chandira pirai parthen sandhipu nigazhnthathadi... manthiram pottathupol enakoru mapplillai kidathathadi...
love music...

Ithu irava pagala… nee nilava kathira… (Neela malargal)
Sendu mallipoo pol azhagiya panthu…
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Mahesh
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 24, 2008 9:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

It could be true or false. I dont know to beleive or ignore it.I am an ardent fan of our music thevan MSV and Kuyilosai KJJ. Out of many thousands words pronunciated by KJJ in tamil music world you guys are able to find fault on just 5 or 6 words and making it a big issue in this forum. I respect and salute both brillant musicians KJJ and MSV.
What is your comment on one song by SPB in Chittukuruvi.....
one line in the song...." ponnukku panguni maasam kalyanam..paattu kachery...aahhhaa..poi kaalu KURUTHIYILE oorkolam...". I am not very good in Madras or Madurai tamil. Is Kuruthai acceptable or it should be KUTHIRAI (HORSE).... . I like SPB also.
Quote:

So our Master had told the Director to shoot some Temple on a street corner ("THERU KOVILEY...") when these lines are sung in the movie !!!
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vaidymsv
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 24, 2008 10:36 am    Post subject: A WARM WELCOME KARIKALAN Reply with quote

Dear Karikaalan,

MSVTIMES.COM extends a very warm welcome to you and nice to hear that you are a great rasika of MSV. The point you have mentioned about Kuthirai being pronounced as Kuruthai is an intentional slang that is used in that specific context. But that apart, a singer who sings a song must be clear in his pronounciation come what may. One of the main reasons for SPB utterly failing in Hindi film music was due to his ill pronounciation. How many Tamizh singers have gone to Hindi & made a mark for themselves??? But on the contrary, the same Hindi singers who can't even utter a word of Tamizh and still have the audocity to pronounce it atrociously are made to sing and in the process murder our languare also. The so called MD's who are (irr)responsible for introducing these characters do not even respect our language. Mr. Karikaalan, this is Vandorai Vazhavaikkum Tamizh Nadu and hence anything is accepted here. The same KJY who was introduced by Ravindra Jain in Chitchor also did absolute justice by singing well. But when it came to MSV, why is that a separate yard stick being followed and why is that KJY wanted anything to be passed under the rug still remains an unanswered mystery. A perfectionist like MSV would naturally want the best of anyone he introduces and there's nothing wrong in that expectation. KJY ought to have corrected himself to do justice to music. Well if he had failed in that attempt miserably, why blame the creator!!! and that too MSV???


CHEERS
MSV IS MUSIC
VAIDY

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 24, 2008 2:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote



Nanri Nanbar Vaidy Avargalle,

Yes I also thought it could be an intentional slang and only for that reason I asked the opinion of others. Thank you again.

Thiru Paat Kadalil Palli Kondaye ....enra arumaiyana paadalil, Thiru Paat Kadal ( not Theru Paat Kadal ) enru azhagaha ucharikkinrar KJY.
Definitely he would correct himself in Thiru Kovile if it was brought to his attention. This is my opinion and as I mentioned above you can't blame for poor pronunciation for just making 5 or 6 words out of many thousand words came from him in tamil.
Other than the words 1. Theru Kovile
2. Pillai Thamil ( Madurai born Vaihai Vadivelu also pronunciates as Thamil not Thamizh )
3. Bendham instead of Bandham
can you find any other significant mistakes in his pronunciation.
If Isai Thevan MSV was frustrated with his pronunciation, how was KJY given some other songs after Andhaman Kathali by Mellisai Mannan.
Innum solla ponal, 7 thadavai 'Thesia Virudhu' venravar KJY, Sindhu Pairavi Thamizh Padamum athil onru enru ninaikiren. Azhagana ucharippil arumaiyana paadalgall. Ivai yaavum ennudaiya karuththugall. KJY ku saarbaga ullathal MSV ku ethiranavai enru porul padalaagathu.
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tvvraghavan
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 24, 2008 11:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Karikaalan
Let me First Welcome you to this Elite Forum !!!

Please note that we are all fans of KJYesudoss sir. There is no doubt in it. But you should also understand that a person of such a high calibre cannot afford to make such trivial mistakes. And when he does one, it is bound to criticism. When he had got such reviews after the song was released, it would had been a wiser option to correct his mistake and stay calm rather than playing the blame game saying that the concerned MD did not correct his mistake , which is actually not true (as heard from the Master himself) !!! Please note that we are not against him .

1. Mid 1950s - The Musical Giants Viswanathan-Ramamoorthy were budding MDs scoring music for the movie "Devdas". I think it was Thanjai Ramaiah Dass who had penned the lyrics for "ULAGE MAAYAM..". Our Master made the legendary singer Ghantasaala sing this song who was not fluent in Thamizh then. Even after repeated attempts of making him sing the first line correctly, he still sang it as "ULLGE MAAYAM.." instead of as "ULAGE MAAYAM". Our Master had to give up and completed the recording. When the lyricist listened to the song , he SLAPPED our Master for the very reason of having okayed the song with such a pronunciation. The song was re-recorded with correct pronunciation by the same singer !!!

2. Mid 1950s - The legendary singer P.Susheela and her brother had come to our Master seeking a chance to showcase her talent. Impressed with her voice (who wouldn't), our Master insisted on refining her Thamizh pronunciation and then get back to him. Rest is history !!!

The above two incidents (as told by our Master himself in many of his interviews and also in my personal meetings with Him) clearly show that the ONUS is on the singers on a larger extent to come out with the correct pronunciation and ofcourse , to an extent on the MD also to make the singer pronounce better !!!

The same singer had been singing for our Master for almost a decade before this song was recorded. How could he pronounce properly in songs like "Yenna Paarvai..." , "Nenjathai Alli Konjam..." (these two being composed in his early days in TFM),"Vizhiye Kathai Yezhuthu...","Manaivi Amaivatthellam..." and the other songs that you have mentioned.

MSV Rules !!!
Venkat
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"NETRIKANN THIRAPPINUM KUTRAM KUTRAMEY !!!"
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vaidymsv
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 26, 2008 12:29 pm    Post subject: BULLS EYE VENKY Reply with quote

Dear Venky,

Bulls eye. The inferences we have made clearly do not pertain to dispute or under estimate the singing capabilities of KJY in anyway. What has been said is that a person of KJY's repute mustn't make a glaring error in pronouncing certain words which weren't alien to him in any way. Having said this, it is only fair that these established singers emulate themselves for others to follow and not continue to make such errors which questions the very credibility of them. As Venky rightly observes, we haven't disputed so many of KJY's fabulous songs but a handful of them in which the errors could have been easily avoided. To err is human but for an authority to err is not acceptable. KJY is also one of my most favourite singers and some of the songs that he has sung for our Master will ever be remembered by all of us.

CHEERS
MATCHELESS MASTER MSV!!!
VAIDY

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Venkat
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 26, 2008 12:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Take another song by IR. Pillai nila irandum... from Neengal Kettavai. KJY will use chinna la instead of periya la. IR recording pothu itha sollalaya...

Coming back to Andaman.
"Ninaivale silai seithu..." song-la VJ will pronounce correctly. Others could have corrected. Others solliyirunthanganna he could have corrected.
But what to do... Its already 30 years gone. But still we are enjoying the beauty of the song.

After Kadhalika Neremillai (oru sila paadalgal tamizh-la paadiyirunthalum), avaruku oru re-entry in TFM kidaichu popular anathuku MSV dhan karanam.
Eg: Vizhiye kadhai ezhuthu, Deivam thanda veedu. Who can forget these songs...
I believe KJY still and forever admire our Music Monarch MSV and will never forget MM in his life...

Even after Anthaman Kadhali, MSV has given him many songs, which I have already quoted.
In all of the S.A.Chandrasekar-MSV movies there will be a KJY song.

MSV-KJY meendum servadharku karanama irunthavar NTR. Avaroda oru Telugu padathuku MSV isai. Antha padathula oru paatu KJY-dhan paadanumnu NTR pidivadham. So MSV-kita solli KJY-pada avargal meendum inaithatha kelvipatruken.
Intha news oru magazine-la padicha gnabagam.

If anybody is aware of this they can throw some more light on this.

Because singers-la KJY-dhan en favourite.
Avaroda Golden voice vera yarukum irukaratha theriyala. Padarathula avar oru genius not only in film music but also in the Carnatic classical world. (SPB and TMS are different. These three personalities are definitely the pride of indian film music)

MSV has given KJY many GEMS in Malayalam.
I am citing a "Navaratnam" for your reference.
1. Eswaran orikal - Lanka Dhahanam

2. Veenna Poovae - Jeevikan Marannu Poya Sree (Double track recording. The same song will be rendered by S.Janaki also. Both will be entirely diffrent, same tune with diffrent bgm)

3. Swargamenna kaananathil
4. Aanimishathinde
(3 & 4 are from the movie Chandrakantham. This movie is a musical classic by our MM. The song Aanimishathinde will be rendered by S.Janaki also)

5. Nadan paatinde - Babumon (Mal version of Ramu)

6. Naanam kalla naanam - Ormakal Marikumo (with beautiful Sujatha humming. Ithey movie-la VJ paadina oru classic song iruku. No words to describe this song. Kekave romba inimaya irukum)

7. Swayamvarathirunal rathri
8. Swargavadhil ambalathil
9. Rathnagarathinde

I think I don't have to mention about the tamil Navaratnams of MSV-KJY. Everybody knows very well.

NOTE: If anybody is hurt after reading this topic, I sincerely apologize for the same.
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Ram
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 26, 2008 5:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Interesting info on MSV-KJY combo in Malayalam! Thanks...
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Damodaran Pachaiappan
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 26, 2008 11:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dear friends,

KJY is a great singer and I am one of his fans and I do not doubt his ability to render songs perfectly. That said, it is unfair of him to lay the blame for this particular song on MSV.

All of us know very well that Mellisai Maamannar is a stickler for detail and is a perfectionist to the core and it is unlikely that he did not point this out. However, it is more likely that his attempts to correct this mistake failed and frustration took hold of others involved. The song itself was so melodious and the music was so impressive that probably the director, producer and others persuaded MSV to let it pass. This is my humble guess and I could of course be wrong. But this is how I have consoled myself all these years. But as Venkat sir has pointed out, nearly thirty years have gone by. Despite this little flaw this song was and still is a superhit. And KJY has given several megahits under MSV's direction before and after this number.

Interestingly enough, one of my friends listens to this song often just to hear this mispronunciation!

I consider this and another incident mentioned in a different thread as a "dhirushti" (please pardon my superstition!) in an otherwise great association between our Legend - the Master Creator MSV- and a phenomenal singer.

With warm regards,

Damodaran Pachaiappan
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