"MSV CLUB" - The Discussion Forum of MSVTimes.com
Official Website of M.S.Viswanathan - Legendary Indian Composer
 
 FAQFAQ   SearchSearch   MemberlistMemberlist   UsergroupsUsergroups   RegisterRegister 
 ProfileProfile   Log in to check your private messagesLog in to check your private messages   Log inLog in 

pOOMUDITTHAL INDHA POONKUZHALI

 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    "MSV CLUB" - The Discussion Forum of MSVTimes.com Forum Index -> Pick a Song and Analyze!
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
N Y MURALI



Joined: 16 Nov 2008
Posts: 920
Location: CHENNAI

PostPosted: Wed Jan 14, 2009 9:33 pm    Post subject: pOOMUDITTHAL INDHA POONKUZHALI Reply with quote

POOMUDHITTHAL INDHA POONKHUZHALI

Can musical notes or swarams express emotions? MSV says ‘yes’ and I agree fully... Why? See this song.

I always approach MSV’s songs with emotion whenever I play his songs in my keyboard. The reason is that they have some secret codes which will be revealed. We all would have read the book Da Vinci Code which is about the secret coded messages in his painting. Am I going too emotional that it defies logic? That is the why I always write reasons whenever I try to read his mind in interpreting his songs in terms of notes and further understand what he wants to convey through musical notes.

I also strongly believe that MSV himself approaches a song emotionally by placing himself to that of the character and hence he is able to bring the best of notes for expressing his emotion through the tune.

Now let us analyze the song. The song is basically in the raga ‘maaya maalava gowla’. This is the very fundamental mela kartha raga which our children start when they start learning carnatic music.

The aarohanam of the raga is
Sa-ri1-ga2-ma1-pa-da1-ni2-sa

The avarohanam is
Sa-ni2-da1-pa-ma1-ga2-ri1-sa

Now I want to add one information about the swaras and their character which I found out during my research for the past 25 years. That is all swarams from sa to upper sa has 13 swarams. If you watch a harmonium there are white and black keys. If you start from the left most key it will be white in color. Then go one by one up to the next 13 keys. The white keys then would be sa-r12-ga2-ma1-pa-da2-ni2-sa. The black key would be ri1-ga1-ma2-da1-ni1. So they are 7 white keys and 5 black keys. Leave the last or the 13th key as it is the same sa only in the higher pitch. Now if you create a melody in the white keys only then suddenly you go to a black key it gives an opposite effect or a sharp effect. In fact western music calls the black keys by the name as sharp. For example if the first white key “sa’ is called as ‘c’ in western the next black key ‘ri1’ is called as ‘c sharp’ and in the same order for all the black keys. So it gives us the evidence that they have the effect of producing sharpness. What would be an opposite emotion for happiness? It is sorrow. So if you set the melody in a white key for happiness, then if you take the tune to the black key then you can express the emotion of sorrow ness.

This is my theory. How it I come to know? I shall explain. I composed 3 albums in devotional. My 2nd album was about Lord Iyyappa during 1986. My mother sung a song in that album. After hearing all the songs my mother commented that I have composed most of the songs in the ‘gana raga’ meaning ‘heavy raga’. I did not ask for any clarification at that time. But long after once I was playing those songs I found out that most of the songs in that album had ragas which had at least one or more black keys. I was pondering why she said those ragas as ‘gana raga’ or ‘heavy’. It was when I found out from MSV’s composition I came to know that. I have explained that MSV used this theory to a greater effect in order to convey opposite emotions. See my posting about ‘unnakkaga ellam unakkaga’ and ‘velli mani oosaiyile’.

I shall give one more example. There is raga ‘mohanam’. Most of the songs are composed in that raga to effect happy situations. In fact the ragas expression of happiness so well known that even some lyrics have been written mentioning the raga name as an example. For instance if you want to convey a happy love line in a lyric you can say like ‘EN MANAM MOHAANA RAAGAM PADIYATHU’. You would have noticed some lyrics had been written in this style. (If anybody can find out any samples please provide.)

Now if we decode the raga ‘mohanam’ it consists of all white keys!!!
Sa-ri2-ga2-pa-da2-sa


Now let us also see the opposite raga ‘sivaranchani’ which normally used for sorrow situation. Again if you decode that raga it consists of one black key.Sa-ri2-ga1-pa-da2-sa.

So by just replacing one key ‘ga1’ instead of ‘ga2’ from the raga ‘mohanam’ it produces the opposite effect and we get the raga ‘sivaranchani’. And the important replacement was the black key with a white key which can create opposite effect. So MSV brilliantly used this concept all through his musical carrier whenever he wants to express any opposite emotion from the original emotions. Nobody would write the lyrics as ‘EN MANAM SIVARANJANI RAAGAM PADIYATHU’ to express a happy situation.

That is why I say MSV always approaches any composition emotionally.

We all know life itself is full of emotions. There are good and bad things happen to us all thorough our life and we express. If we have done good deeds in the previous birth we may get more happiness than sorrow ness. That is why goddesses Saraswathi has kept 7 white keys and only 5 black keys indicating that there are more good than bad in the world. If we put our soul or ‘athma’ in to that we can find that out. As I am writing this MSV himself feeds me with one more information. If you read the section quotes from MSV he has mentioned as
"Melody'il Oru Thuli Sogam Irukkum;"
Melody will have a tinge of lingering sorrow in it.


Coming back to song it is composed in the raga ‘mayaa maalava gowla’ which has 2 black keys which are ‘ri1’ and ‘da1’. So this raga is a ‘gana raga’ or heavy raga as per my theory. Why he set the tune of this song in that heavy raga. Because of the situation of the character which I think I need not explain. He also has set the same raga for the song ‘kallellam maanicka kallaguma’ in the movie ‘aalayamani’. Again the reason is it is a very emotional and heavy love. It is not a casual love like the ‘deiva magan’ sivaji loving ‘jayalalthi’.

So the song goes in the raga and when the line ‘adai paarthirukkum kannil neer aruvi’ comes there is a slight change of tune at ‘paarthirukkum’. That is because there is a change of swaram used. The swaram is ‘da2’ (white key) instead of ‘da1’ (black key).

I have mentioned in my earlier posting about ‘unnakkaga ellam unakkaga’ and ‘velli mani oosaiyilee’ where I have explained how he went from the white key to black key ‘da1’ to express the emotion of sorrow or soberness from the happy situation.

But here he is doing the opposite of that. BUT WHY?

Because of the line ‘paarthirukkum kannil neer aruvi’. What we do when our heart becomes heavy with emotions? We cry. What is the product of crying? Tears. Of course only ‘aanandda kanneer’. And by shedding tears our heart becomes light. So he is conveying that emotion by the swara change when he changes from the heavy ‘da1’ to the light ‘da2’ and this is triggered by the line ‘paarthirukkum kannil neer aruvi’.

Just for the composition of this one line alone he should have been conferred with the ‘Bharat Ratna’ award. But unfortunately the hearts of the committee of yesteryears and now are all hard and heavy (like black keys). I do not know when their heart will become light (like white keys).

Coming back to the song again the song it goes on in the same raga for the 1st charanam. Then comes a totally unexpected composition of ‘reading of the kalayan pathrika’ by way of song itself which is a very unique technique never tried before. But since this is not in meter there will not be any rhythm. But if you notice the tune there is a change. The raga will be in ‘sudha danyasi’ with the mix of again ‘da1’. Why? Because he reads the ‘kalyaana pathrika’ to the general public and there should not be any scope for his personal emotion. So he pickup a mangala raga (auspicious) normally rendered in all marriages. But still there is a mix of ‘da1’ which is not in that raga. I do not know why? It could be that still he is not come out from the heavy emotion. I will give proof for this in which is available in the ‘naadhaswara interlude’

Now when this is over there would be ‘naadaswaram’ follow up. Here the raga of that ‘naadaswaram’ is pure ‘sudha danyasi’. Why? Because for the ‘naadaswara’ player there is no such emotions. He is a common public for the marriage situation.

Now again when the vocal comes back to the raga ‘maaya malava gowla’. And the line by line narration of the marriage sequence each line followed by nadhaswaram (of course this time in the same raga as they cannot follow in a different raga) and taking the sequence to peak when the line comes as ‘kottiyadhu melam’ there is the ‘ketti melam’ and after that line ‘kulam vazhgha’ then the tradition nadhaswara follow up which is normally practiced in any marriage.

Then comes the final charanam ‘kaithalam thandhen’ and ends with MSV’s best emotional imagination of ‘paarthirukkum kannil neer aruvi’ and repeated by only ‘neer aruvi’ 2 times to express the final emotion.

I also expressed in various postings that he used a method called chords based composition which is very unique method. Even though this song is composed in the raga ‘maaya malava gowla’ as raga based composition even within this raga wherever possible he has followed the chord notation route within that raga wherever possible. In fact the very line in which he changes the tune to “paarthirukkum’ is actually changing from ‘f minor’ (sa-ma1-da1) and c major (sa-ga2-pa) route and changes to f major (sa-ma1-[b]da2). [/b]So it gives the total feel of the emotion.

The lyric is wonderfully written and I request somebody to explain as I am very weak in the lyrics. Whenever I hear MSV song I closely look in to the sound only and forget to take note of the lyrics.

In my first posting itself (after the introduction that is MSV’s composing style part 1) I stated that the songs composed during 1960-80 s are the golden era and out of that MSV takes a major part. He is also very ably supported by the lyrics writers kannadasan and vaali. In fact kannadasan and MSV are like body and soul. Without a body the soul cannot express. Same way without the soul the body is of no use.

So when kannadasan passed away that made the end of the golden era in my opinion. I am not speaking against vaali. In fact it is vaali himself quoted this during the meeting on 21-12-08 at YMCA. He said that today’s songs are composed and recorded in a way that the lyrics are not audible. He further said it is one way good that if in case it is audible (including his own lyrics) we will all through stones at them.


See you friends,

N Y MURALI


PL NOTE: I some time feel guilty whether I am writing posting not in a short way but in an elaborate way. But since much technical information is required to understand it better I am unable to shorten it. Pl provide your feed back on this.




Last edited by N Y MURALI on Thu Jan 15, 2009 6:11 am; edited 1 time in total
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
Damodaran Pachaiappan



Joined: 21 Oct 2007
Posts: 119
Location: Ireland

PostPosted: Thu Jan 15, 2009 2:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dear Mr.Murali,

Excellent write up. Ever since your advent into this forum , I have been fascinated by your analysis. Although you are trying to be simple in your expositions, I find that it all goes over my head purely due to my ignorance in music. Nonetheless, I can appreciate the core message and hence I enjoy reading your posts. I agree with you that Mellisai Maamannar's compositions can express more than emotions.

This particular song is a 'heavy duty' one. The 'situation' would have been a big challenge for any MD, but must have been a cake walk for our beloved MSV. Though, I do not know anything about the ragams used, I can understand that it is a complex piece. Any one who listens to this song superficially may not appreciate the intricacies of this song. TMS has tried his best to convey what our Legend would have had in his mind. MSV has deftly composed a score for a joyous occasion (marriage) which also conveys the disappointment of the individual who sings the song but has since sacrificed his own desire and is now wishing the best for the bride. How much more complicated can it get? But see how well he has done it! Superb!

As you have rightly mentioned, Kaviarasar plays a vital role in all these. It is very clear form the lyrics that the bride was not aware of the love that this character had for her. And what words, 'poo mudippal indha poonguzhali...
'Paarvayile mannan peir ezhudhi...' Kadhhalaal mella kaal parthu nadandhu vara....' .


Poovayin annan kai valai pooti ... This is the line that conveys the current relationship between the protagonist and the bride to be.

'Kadamai mudinthadhu kalyanam aaga'... In an ideal world the groom should have understood the meaning of this and should have been content but it did not happen and that is the rest of the film!

Matter and meter are like sugar and milk in paayasam here as we cannot differentiate the two. Whether the bride and groom were happily married or not, the tune and the lyrics are happily married here.

Mellisai Chakravarthy brought out the best from Kaviarasar and vice versa!

For the umpteenth time, I am stupefied by the wonders that this great musical genius can create. Composing tune for a wedding invitation! And making it all so melodramatic! People took his talents for granted and never looked beneath the surface. The limited technology those days did not help.

I doubt if we will ever come across another composer like this in our lifetime.

Please continue to enthrall us.

Wtih regards,
_________________
Dr.Damodaran Pachaiappan
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Yahoo Messenger MSN Messenger
madhuraman



Joined: 11 Jun 2007
Posts: 1226
Location: navimumbai

PostPosted: Thu Jan 15, 2009 6:42 am    Post subject: Poo mudippAL indha poonguzhali - Reply with quote

Dear Dr, Mr. Murali and all other friends,

The song discussed here has several dimensions to it from every point of view. As Dr concedes I am yet another of those impoverished souls who have no claims of music; nonetheless we do have a soul that responds to quality in any form.
As for the lyric, if one goes by an objective observation [leave alone analysis] quite a number of uncommon but auspicious terms have been liberally handled by KAVIARASU KANNADASAN.

LOOK AT THE TERMS : Poonguzhali, Anjanam, Theetti, Kai vaLai pootti,
KanagamaNi charam, Aanandham pAdu ena AAngOre kural pirakka, Kottiyadhu mELAM, Kuvindhadu kOdi malar , kattinAN mAngalyam,
manai vAzhga, thuNai vAzhga, Kulam vAzhga. A supreme phraseology soaked in purity of emotions that should bless the occasion have been deftly assembled portraying the honest wishes of the protagonist.

The composer:
As Dr. says , the composer has deeply imbibed the spirit of the situation as one can vividly pick up from the orchestration richly embellished by Nadaswaram and Thavil. But, as Raguraman reads the Wedding invitation phrases , orchestration stays rather relegated with a more mute thavil as the back up. Right at the spot of 'MAngalya dharaNam' MSV musically blesses the occasion with a plethora of instruments with Thavil as the dominant element.
Soon enough, every thing drops to a sedate scale whereupon it is TMS to be admired at. From this point on, TMS reveals 'happiness shielding deprivation' in his voice as he completes the rest of the song.
Once again Kannadasan shows alacrity in the closing pallavi phrase that reads "POO MUDITHHAAL instead of PoomudippaL.
One of the most intricate songs to conceive, compose both lyric / tune and to pictorially render it on celluloid.
One has to admire N.Balakrishnan's unobtrusive but high-pitched Camera work for this movie. Once again I am unable to refrain from remembering CVSridar the indomitable exponent of experimentation in TF.
Any irrelevant observations of mine may be pardoned before being brushed aside, as streaks of nostalgia. Thank you all for the opportunity.

Warm regards Prof.K.Raman Madurai.
_________________
Prof. K. Raman
Mumbai
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
N Y MURALI



Joined: 16 Nov 2008
Posts: 920
Location: CHENNAI

PostPosted: Thu Jan 15, 2009 7:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dear DR.

Thanks for your reply. indeed this kind of feedback makes me more enthusiastic to write more about this facet of the greatest composer.

If we ask MSV whether he intended these messages at the time of the composition then there would be a straight answer 'no' from him. He would humble say that it just came that way. If it happens in the way I have written he would say it is the work of godesess Saraswathi. But nevertheless I try to decode messages of every song composed by him which touched our heart over the years. It is immaterial for me whether it has come out of his genius or from the gift of Saraswathi. Even if we take the latter, to be a medium of expression of Saraswati itself is a prise for his "poorva punniyam'. We also should note from his life that he showed interest for acting and learning music was only a prerequiste in those days. So that could explain the reason of godesses Saraswathi plan. But still I believe that even if the idea flashed him without any plan still it contain secret messages like this in most of the songs composed by him during the goldern era.

Infact I want to add one more information. In your own medical profession you would have got flashed with brilliant ideas at times when you have complicated cases. I feel that it comes to you because of two factors. One you are qualified enough to receive that idea. Second you have passion and devotion to your profession. But when that idea comes to you it would be very difficult for a man like me who knows nothing about medical terms. But still you know better because of your professional knowledge that the idea struck to you has every logic. But sometimes it also happens that we would not be able to find out any logic and we call these as 'medical miracle'. But I still be believe the medical miracles or the so called x facors also have some method and logic in it. It is just that we are not able to understand the logic. But that does not mean that there is no logic. I believe in a statement that 'WHATEVER HAPPENS IN THIS UNIVERSE IT HAPPENS IN SOME ORDER AND LOGIC. IF WE CANNOT UNDERSTAND IT IS OUR FAULT'.

I shall give an example. You would have noticed that I have mentioned that raga sivaranchani is used for sorrow situation. But the same genious has composed a song in the raga sivaranchani for a happy situation in the title song 'utharavindri ulle vaa'. Now if we start looking at that with this posting it would create only confusion. Sometimes I feel the more I try to go close to his mind and heart the farther he goes.

But if we closely analyise that song we would notice that MSV has another feature in his composition which is the absence of shackles or breaking the ground rules as mentioned by our Vatsan and Ram.

With warm regards,

N Y MURALI
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
N Y MURALI



Joined: 16 Nov 2008
Posts: 920
Location: CHENNAI

PostPosted: Thu Jan 15, 2009 8:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

DEAR PROF RAMAN,
THANKS FOR YOU LYRIC EXPLANATION WHICH ARE MISSING IN MY POSTING. TO ADD ONE MORE WORD WHICH THE GREAT KANNADASAN USED IS 'KAITHALAM' WHICH HE GOT FROM THE INSPIRATION OF 'THIRUPUGAZH' (KAITHALA NIRAI KANI APPAMODU AVAL PORI)

THANKS

N Y MURALI
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
S.V.Srinivasan



Joined: 21 Mar 2008
Posts: 48
Location: Bangalore, India

PostPosted: Thu Jan 15, 2009 10:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mr Murali's analysis of the song "Poomudipal Indha Poonghuzhali" dredged up a memory which has stayed hidden in my subconscious mind for the last three decades. Between 1978 and 1980, I used to travel from my house in Shivajinagar to the Bangalore University campus by university bus. There was a conductor called Laxman (I think) who was a Kannadiga and who did not know a word of Tamil. One day, he heard me humming some Tamil film song and in the course of our conversation, revealed that he loves the song "Poomudipal Indha Poonghuzali" -without knowing anything about the song!

This also reminds me of another incident. We had some tenants in our house in the 1960s who were Kannadigas. Most of the members of that family worked in the P & T department which was walking distance from our house. One particular year, these tenants wanted to sing at the annual Staff Day of their office club. The song they chose was "Yenna Vegam Nillu Baama" from Kuzhandaiyum Deivamum! I remember singing on stage with them - I must have been 9 or 10 years old at that time.

One more incident. When I was doing my MCom, we had an annual cultural program at the University. I remember one Kannada person - who did not know a word of Tamil - belting out "Kaettavarellam Paadalam" from Thangai, mispronouncing many words!

Do we need any other certificate for MSV's versatility and appeal which cuts across all language barriers?
_________________
Srini
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Vatsan



Joined: 20 Jan 2007
Posts: 352

PostPosted: Thu Jan 15, 2009 4:19 pm    Post subject: NYM Reply with quote

As usual, NYM...a great write-up.
With our man MSV, he only needs to communicate to the behemoth of the musical entity inside him, the situation and pat comes the music. The entity has a self-regulatory system which digests new forms of music and let its out at the right time, digests new ragas and may mix it with some raaga or the other, may mix it with some other form of music or other or may prefer to present it in its purest form...we do not know, MSV himself does not know. That is why we have the perfection and peaceful co-existence of various musical forms within the same song, in probably successive lines, a feature that belaboured construction of music can never achieve. Only one case in point for simpicity's sake, "Hello my dear wrong number"..... "kAviriyil meeNO" is all "light", "poovizhiyil thEnO"...again light, "dEvamagaL thAno" classical gamakams creep in but there is not a hint of dissonance..."thEdi varalAmO"....heaviness out and lightness in again...."pAvai enai pArthAl" in lighter vein again and finally......"muthumai varum varayO" is all classicism, gamakams galore. The above kind of a "form" can never be produced by a mind that stops, thinks, strategizes and then takes the music along. To me, the automatic regulation system did all that, fashioned all that and used MSV as a conduit.
Sorry for sounding like a broken record, it all happens !!!!
Murali, the posting is meant to substantiate your depiction of MSV's reactions, of his drawing a blank and his inability to articulate the origin/ cause of it all. That's all !!!

This time around, the choice of a gana raaga happened to MSV. Personally speaking, raagas that have created maximum heaviness in me are the ones that have R1 or N2(or N3 as the case maybe) or both Smile
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
parthavi



Joined: 15 Jan 2007
Posts: 705
Location: Chennai

PostPosted: Fri Jan 16, 2009 1:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

In several songs, MSV has integrated the mangala vadhyams (nadaswaram and Thavil0 with other instruments and has created a perfect blend. There are several such songs. a few I can remember, apart from Poo mudiththal is, vaaraay en thozhi vaaraayo','oorengum mappillai oorvalam' 'vasanththaththil oer naalmanavarai oram' 'ettadukku maaligaiyil' etc.

I don't thinkthat any other composer has even ateempted this kind of integration.
_________________
P Rengaswami (9381409380)
MSV, Un isai kettaal puvi asainthaadum, idhu iraivan arul aagum.
http://msv-music.blogspot.in/
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Yahoo Messenger
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic    "MSV CLUB" - The Discussion Forum of MSVTimes.com Forum Index -> Pick a Song and Analyze! All times are GMT + 5.5 Hours
Page 1 of 1

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum


Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group