"MSV CLUB" - The Discussion Forum of MSVTimes.com

[N Y MURALI]

I have always maintained that MSV composition is always melodious irrespective of the style whether it is carnatic, Hindustani, western, light music, or Persian or even the folk.

While I described about his mellisai style I have always maintained that he used a powerful method which is to use the notation of the chords which are like life to western music. I have also mentioned that this is the main reason for his uniqueness. When I found out this during 1987 I could not name the style of this composition as it has never been tried out. So I mention this method as chords based melody or simply (CBM). No other Indian music composer has found out this method. Even if they could have found this method after some years of listening to MSV composition style I have found out they did not use and exploited this method in their composition. MSV is the only (the only) composer to have started this method and exploited this to the fullest extent.

In fact if I am right he started this method from 1960s. Probably from the movie ‘paalum pazhamum’. I shall share with you a statistics from the book ‘MELLISAI MANNARGALIN ISAI PAYANANGAL’ written by Mr. Vaamanan. In the year 1961 MSV has given three movies for director Bhim Singh alone. They are ‘paalum pazhamum’, ‘paasa malar’ and ‘paava mannippu’. There are totally 22 songs. Out of that 18 are evergreen. Even the rest we have to leave it because we should not be felt biased. Out of that 22 at least 10 are in this method CBM. The greatest song ‘malardhum malaradha’ is chords based melody.

Once I found him using this method from 60’s to even today I felt that this could be one of the main reason for the golden era for TFM. But that does mean that the earlier method which other composer and even MSV himself adopted prior to that is inferior. But it certainly brought a new dimension to the music. He also brought in the new face of his orchestration with this method.

I was very sure that because of this method MSV’s songs are looking unique. But why more melodious than others? This question was always bothering my mind for the past 20 years. But recently I seem to have found an answer for that.

I want to share with you an important common aspect of carnatic and western music. Both adopt a method called intervals which is the relation between two notes. If you play or sing the swaram ‘sa’ then it has a pitch. Now the swaram ‘ri’ when sung is incremental of pitch compared to the pitch of ‘sa’. How much degree of pitch in increment will determine whether it is ‘ri’ or ‘ga’. So there are 12 incremental deviations you would notice if you start a sound in a particular pitch as ‘sa’. Then there would be 11 different degrees of incremental deviation of pitch with respect to the original sound ‘sa’ you have sung or played. So we call the entire original’ 1+11 variations as
1 sa
2 ‘ri’ s
2 ‘ga’ s
2 ‘ma’ s
1 pa
2 ‘da’ s
2 ‘ni’ s


I shall explain.

I recently bought a book about ‘chords’ just to know more about. If you notice the western natural scale is equivalent to our raga ‘sankarabharanam’.

The swarams are
Sa-ri2-ga2-ma1-pa-da2-ni2’

The equivalent western notations are
C, D,E,F,G,A,B

So if you play the natural scale notes or the aarohanam of raga sankarabharanam
The raga consists of 7 notes. The chords (triodes which means 3) combination of that scale or raga would be
Primary Chords
C major – c-e-g or sa-ga2-pa
F major – f-a-c or ma1-da2-sa
G major – g-b-d or pa-ni2-ri2

Secondary chords
D minor – d-f-a or ri2-ma1-da2
E minor – e-g-b or ga2-pa-ni2
A minor – a-c-e or da2-sa-ga2

Dischords
B diminished – b-d-f or ni2-ri2-ma1

So there are totally 7 chords for a particular scale. So this shows that any raga can also be expressed in the western way of chords instead of our carnatic way which are aarohanam and awarohanam.

But there is fundamental difference between carnatic music and western music in terms identification of note. While in carnatic in natural scale (first shruthi) we call ‘sa’ and the western calls ‘c’ when we call the next swaram ri1 whereas western calls it as c sharp. The other difference is while western notation names are fixed the carnatic notations are relative. That is if you play a song in shruthi 1 and if the first note is ‘c’ then say you want to change the shruthi to 1 ½. The actual swaram name is ‘ri1’ with respect to shrthi 1 whereas since you have changed the shruthi to 1 ½ now the ‘ri1’ becomes ‘sa’ with respect to shruthi 1 ½ and the next 12 notes are defined as mentioned earlier. Whereas in western the name of the note remains ‘c sharp’ only.

So we can say that while western is fixed in terms of swaram names the carnatic is relative to the shruthis.

There is one more fundamental difference between carnatic and western music. The carnatic music is always shruthi based. That is the individual clarity of a note or swaram. Where as western is based on harmony that is group notes. That is why you do not find a rhythm guitar in a carnatic katcheri whereas in western you have a rhythm guitar or a piano or key board to play chords. But carantic music has got the shruthi box or thambura. Why? Because they will provide continous flow of the shruthi. It is produced by setting the tones of the notes together of sa-pa or sa-ma depending upon the raga you play or sing. It is called ‘panchama’ shruthi if it is in sa-pa and madima shruthi in the other case where you have to set the notes as sa-ma1. So in a way it can also be called as harmony or group notes. But we have only sa-pa or sa-ma1 irrespective of any raga. So we cannot call it is as harmony based. As told earlier the reason for the shruthi box is to help the singer to maintain the correct shruthi. So we can understand the importance of shruthi in carnatic music.

Even though western music is based on harmony or group notes it also has to have a shruthi. That is taken care by the chords. Since it involves group notes played together there are 3 notes played together. (there are 2, 3, 4, 5 notes chords also which is a different matter but 3 notes chords are common) If is in panchama shruthi its ‘sa-ga2-pa’ and if it is madhima shruthi it is ‘sa-ma1-da2’. It is interesting to note that western also approaches in the same way as sa-pa or sa-ma route but the only addition is ga2 in panchama shruthi and da2 in the madhima shruthi. And amazingly western calls the note c or ‘sa’ as key note or in our music as ‘aadhara shruthi’ and calls ‘ma’ as perfect 4th (that is the fourth note from c) and ‘pa’ as perfect 5th (that is the fifth note from c). In carnatic we call ‘pa’ and ‘ma1’ as ‘samvaadhi swarams’ meaning swarams in total agreement to the ‘aadara shruthi’. That is the reason you have a shruthi box or thambura to set panchama or madhima shruthi. Since the concept of not adding ‘ga2’ or ‘da2’ for the shruthis in carnatic music , there is no name for ‘ga2’ or ‘da2’.

Whereas western calls ma1 or ‘f’ as perfect 4th concord and pa or ‘g’ as 5th perfect concord and calls ‘ga2’ or ‘e’ and ‘da2’ or ‘a’ as ‘imperfect concord’ or meaning ‘pradhivadhi swaras’ (that is in agreement to some extent or replaceable).

Now what about the character of the notes in the western scale or the swarams of shankarabharanam ‘r12’ or ‘ni2’?. They are called as discord in western or ‘vivadhi swarams’ in carnatic. That is exactly the reason why the three chords in the raga sankarabharanam ‘c major’ ‘f major’ and ‘g major’ are called as primary chords where as the other 4 chords are called as 3 secondary chords and 1 dischord.

But we should not confuse and conclude that secondary chords or the dischord cannot be used. The matter is with respect to the natural scale or shankarabharanam raga the 3 primary chords stands first in the ranking of harmony.

Now let us analyze how chords could be played for a raga ‘mohanam’ which is actually the raga born from the mother raga shankarabharanam. If you remove swaram ‘ma1’ and ‘ni2’ from shankarabharanam then it becomes mohana raga.
The aarohanam
‘sa’ ‘ri2’ ‘ga2’ ‘pa’ ‘da2’ ‘sa’
the avarohanam is
‘sa’, ‘da2’ ‘pa’ ‘ga2’ ‘ri2’ ‘sa’
since clearly it does not have ‘ma2’ so it is in panchama shruthi. So if you sing or play this raga in terms of chords you would get only one primary chord that is ‘c major’ or ‘sa-ga2-pa’ in the sa-pa route. You will not get f major that is from sa-ma1 route as there is no ‘ma’ in mohanam. You will not get ‘g major’ also as there is no ‘ni’. So out of 3 primary chords we would get only 1 primary chord and we can have only secondary chord which is A minor or sa-ga2-da2. Since western does not go by raga concept they do not bother about that. And since carnatic does not have chords concept they also do not bother. The problem would be for mellisai only.

But that does not mean cine or light music songs are not composed in mohana raga. There are ‘n’ no of cine songs composed in mohana raga including MSV. Examples are many to quote like ‘sange muzhangu’ or ‘bansayi kadal paravaigal’ etc. even the ‘tamizh thai vazhthu’ which we are singing every day ‘neeradum kadaludutha’ by MSV are all in mohanam. So it does not mean that they are non harmonious or non melodious. But the problem is you can play only one primary chord. All others would be secondary or dischord only. That is the reason you always find MSV immediately shifting to other notes when he starts a song in mohanam. There are again ‘n’ no of examples. Read my post about ‘velli mani oosaiyile’ posted recently. The light music stands between the carnatic and western music. It always involves orchestration. Harmony is the life for light music. Without harmony and orchestration there is no light music.

Now we would be in a postion to understand why MSV adopted this method so effectively that not only his composition is unique but they are also melodious. That is exactly the reason why they stand against TIME. IT IS IN TOTAL HARMONY.

I want to emphasize the power or chords based composition with a real life situation. If we notice in our marital life no couple in the world is in perfect harmony. Life always goes by adjustment. That is ‘dischords’ in the worst case or ‘secondary chords’ in the reasonable case. What would happen in case if husband and wife are in perfect frequency in thinking and action? Life will be always melodious and evergreen in that case. If chords can be played for any notes it could some time be of ‘dischord’ or ‘secondary chords’. whereas in composition if the notes itself are formed from the chords then we have choice of using the primary chords which would be in total harmony. That is exactly the reason why we feel his songs are unique and melodious.

But in this method there is one limitation. That is we could get only 3 primary chords in a 7 swara raga or a scale. So in order to overcome this what he does is he goes to the other notes of other raaga or other chords and links one with other. That is why we are not able to identify the raga name of his composition mostly. Please read my article about ‘malligai en mannan’ and ‘unnai naan santhithen’ to understand better.

There are lot of chords in western which I have not covered since that is not our subject. Please read my article ‘MSV composing style part 4’ where I have given how he has constructed a particular song.

The man who created and brought the new facet of music composition is just not been recognized by the world. We never seem to have noticed this aspect of his composition. We say that MSV’s composition is always unique and it comes to him like a flash. I also accept that fact. But I feel it also comes with a method. If Einstein has found the theory of relativity that does not mean that there was no relativity earlier. Only it came to him like a flash. But it has a science which the world recognized.


But we can also say that chords based composition is part and parcel of western music composition. So what is the fuss about this?
But to make a western concept for an Indian melody is the stroke of a genius which no western composer has ever tried.

But unfortunately in India nobody seems to have noticed this facet of his composition. Even if they have understood they have not understood the power of this concept or otherwise they would have used this method.

Even MSV’s own TKR never seems to have mentioned about this facet. He himself has not used this concept in his composition after their partition.

If we are talking high about Thyagaraja for carnatic music composition and ‘Beethoven’ for western music then MSV CAN BE PLACED RIGHT NEXT TO THEM for light music. The problem is there is no institutionalized set up for light music. It is after all cinema songs. Who cares?

Now I have poured out all my emotions which I carried ever since I found this method in his composition from the song ‘anbe vaa’. After that I studied song after song and to my amazement got proof after proof. That is the reason I developed an emotional bond to his composition. Because the other methods which MSV himself used are very common.

But thanks to MSVTIMES I have found new friends. I also got a support for my theory. I am meeting one gentleman who also shares the same view. He has a very sound knowledge about western music. I am meeting him next week.

Now to emphasize this concept I shall give reference of only 5 songs of his chords based melodies which are evergreen in various situations.

‘Raajavin paarvai raaniyin pakkam’ – dream
‘malardhum malaraadha’ – sober
‘muthukullika vaarigala’ – folk.
‘malar endra mugam’ – western
‘malligai en mannan’ - family.

These are just tip of the iceberg to quote how he has used the concept for various scenarios.

Now to conclude, my job is to highlight this aspect. What I want is this ‘sanggetha medhai’ the creative wonder of goddesses Saraswati has to be recoganized. If not today at least in future.

‘En kadamai edhai patri ezhudhi ezhudi pani seidhu kidappadhe’

See you all,

Wish you happy Pongal

N Y MURALI.

[Guest]

Dear Murali,
I adore your energy to do justice. I have always felt our music has never been understood and appreciated. I can see the hope through you.
Yes ! MSV has projected his music differently and that is by the overt use of harmony.When I stated learning guitar, unfortunately by myself, I was impressed only by MSV's songs for the same reason. However on getting some better recordings of earlier songs by TG.LINGAPPA, G.RAMANATHAN, SMS, I realised that there was polyphony in their compositions as well but not very well heard. Now with new releases we can hear lost frequencies. I was stunned to hear the Bass line in very old songs. Even in song rendered by MKT. Probably the record producers did it deliberately as the output media was mainly needle gramophones,Which could not handle the bass notes.
The difference then that MSV gave was in the manner of progression of the chords which had a western style. You can try out the following on your keyboard.
1. C--A minor-- D minor ---G.Dom 7th--C
2. C--A minor---F major----G. Dom 7th--C
3. C--Cmajor7th-A minor---F--G---G Dom 7th--C
4. C-- E Dom7th--A minor--F--GDom7th--C
Each will give a different feel like each raga does.There are so many other progressions.
A common style of music very popular was Latin and ballroom and there were quite some orchestras which played these and I had been lucky to see and hear in Chennai.One artist I used to admire is still active and that is Mr Frank Dubier. The groups called 'Caravelle' and "Professionals" had guitarist Tommy Smith and drummer Noel Grant. All of them some others figure in the list of members of the 'Team' whose contribution to his success the Great MSV has magnanimously acknowledged.
Shifting from minor to major either parallel of relatively was another difference not seen earlier.There is no space to elaborate the observations. I am sure soon we can expect more interest ,without bias, as you have shown the way.
Chords were the basic explanations of the flow of acceptable notes in a Raga, Mode or simply scales. Some were overt and some as in a group of chaste musicians decided against their use. There is NO Harm in this. One thing is is that we do not have unamplified music in quiet surroundings to enjoy the overtones and hence require the actual playing of the tones.Secondly not all af public are trained to listen to them and hence will not be easily acceptable as film music where the prime aim is entertainment of all without financial risk of production..
The earlier composers adapted harmony to Raga based songs and MSV adapted chord progression of western style to bring out the notes of a Raga. I am avoiding the used of Raga because I have been demonstrated the difference between using the notes of a raga and
the way a raga should be rendered Especially the landing notes., notes to be stressed and those to be hidden Believe me me there is world of
difference and it would be catastrophic to Carnatic music if this is not highlighted. With present carnatic musicians trying to jump the bandwagon to become famous there is this terrible 9/11 or 26/11 facing carnatic music. That is why I think MSV has never said a composition of his was of a particular raga. Mostly I think he has said it is based on a particular raga. I wonder if I would have got into music but for the music of MSV. Because of him now I am a lover of wide range of music like those of Bach ,Beethoven,Mozart, Henry Mancini , G.Ramanathan, C.Ramachadra Papanasam Sivan et al . including Heavy metal.
I think the later musicians made only slight modifications. probably like adapting folk songs more and shifting the key and some other progressions.
]Thanks for giving the opportunity to vent my feelings.Hoping to hear from you soon. Chakravarthy

[N Y MURALI]

Dear Prof,
Thanks for your feed back. Being born in the early 60s I had more opportunities to hear MSV song and the next generation MDS like Ilayaraja & AR.. The only way I could have come to know about the earlier generation of MDs would have been to listen to their composition wantedly. But some how I missed that. Now your idea about them as well as MSV and later generations would fill that vacuum in my understanding.

Regarding your explanation that MSV does not set tunes based on raga is absolutely correct. He himself has quoted in an interview which I have read in internet. In that interview he said that unless situation warrants he does not compose tunes in any raga. When people approached him for the raga name for ‘oru naal iravu’ in the movie ‘kaaviyathalaivi’ he said it is a cinema raga. Same answer for ‘malligai en mannan mayangum’. In fact when I played the song ‘malligai en mannan’ in my harmonium first time I found at least in the pallavi it satisfies the raga ‘karaharapriya’. But the melody actually had been constructed out of 4 chords c minor, e flat, f major, and b flat (if we play the song in natural scale). So it satisfies the raga notation rule as far as the notations are concerned. But shear coincidence of notation of the ‘karaharapriya’ falling in a piece of melody does not necessary mean that the tune is set in that particular raga. This explains your observation of the method to be adopted while rendering the raga ‘karaharapriya’ in carnatic style.

Some times I wonder even if the song is composed in a particular raga, the arrangement of the aarohanam and avarohanam of the raga accidentally falls in chord progression. For instance take the raga ‘magadhi’ which Dr. BMK suggested to MSV as an apporva raga for the song ‘adisaya ragam’. The raga consists of notes sa, ga2, pa, ni1 & sa (c, e, g, a sharp and c). So this it forms a natural chord progression of c major, e dim and c7th. But the song never seems to be like a chord progression.

But at the same time when people say that the song ‘naalaam naalaam thiru naalaam’ in the movie ‘kadalikka neramillai’ while others call it with some raga I strongly believe that is in chord progressions.

I shall try that chords which you have suggested. In the meantime good buy to you.

Looking forward to meet you on Saturday,

With warm regards,

N Y MURALI