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WHAT RAAGA IS "MALLIGAI EN MANNAN MAYANGUM" ?
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Vatsan



Joined: 20 Jan 2007
Posts: 352

PostPosted: Fri Jan 02, 2009 1:41 pm    Post subject: song Reply with quote

Hi Murali,
Is it "varunthAthE manam varunthAthE" ?
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Vatsan



Joined: 20 Jan 2007
Posts: 352

PostPosted: Fri Jan 02, 2009 1:42 pm    Post subject: ref Reply with quote

from Porter Kanthan that is...Smile
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N Y MURALI



Joined: 16 Nov 2008
Posts: 920
Location: CHENNAI

PostPosted: Fri Jan 02, 2009 3:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

DEAR VATSAN
THANKS FOR THE REPLY. ACUTALLY I HAVE FORGOTTEN THE LYRIC AND EVEN THE TUNE. THE RESONS I WAS NOT THINKING IT COULD BE OF MSV. OTHERWISE I WOULD HAVE TRIED IN MY KEYBORD AND REMEMBERED THE RAAGA ATLEAST. BUT I FEEL IT SEEMS TO BE LIKE GOWRI MANOHARI OR KEERAVANI. IAM NOT SURE. THE TUNE WAS SOUNDING SOMETHINK SIMILIAR TO THE SONG 'NAM VAZHVIL KAANA SAMARASAM ULAAVUM IDEMA'. AND THE CHARANAM ENDS IN HIGH PITCH. BUT I AM SURE ABOUT THE SITUATION WHICH IS IN TRAIN.

THANKS FOR YOUR REPLY

CALL ME IF YOU ARE FREE IN THE EVENING.

REGARDS

N Y MURALI
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Vatsan



Joined: 20 Jan 2007
Posts: 352

PostPosted: Fri Jan 02, 2009 5:13 pm    Post subject: style Reply with quote

Murali, I know where you are headed Smile You/ we are trying to study the evolution of MSV right from his nascent years in film music. For this, we need to hear the FIRST MSV melody that made it, his "unofficial" tune for a song which had the pallavi "puthu vasanthamE vAzhvilE"
which was credited to SM Subbiah Naidu. I am not able to find it. Though MSV calls it as the "Veera Abhimanyu" song, the actual name of the movie is "Abhimanyu" which came in the 40s. He actually started composing for movies as a teenager !!!!

Some thoughts that arose after reading your post......please feel free to look past the posting if you dont find it adding value....
As expected of a human being in his early 20s , if you listen to MSV's early 50s scores, you will quickly know that there is something waiting to bubble forth from inside him and the fact that he was not yet totally intimate with his "composing friend" deep inside. The behemoth of the musical entity inside, did manage to make its fragrance available to its listeners from time to time though. Again as expected, when the fragrance did flow, it acquired the Naushad-esque coloration on occasions. So much was MSV in awe with Naushad and so much was his intimacy with Naushad's works , that he could discern the scene that was being shown by hearing the opening strains of Naushad's BGM....those were actually MSV's hearts' strings that were being tugged at. He acquired the art of notating, parsing songs into swarams by practicing
that very art on Naushad's songs. He knew Naushad's musical personality better than his own !!!!
As an aside, though Naushad wasn't my hot favorite composer in the past, it was my curiosity about what in Naushad's art, exactly caused the delirium in MSV...that caused his face to glow up, get flushed with a teary embellishment, at the very mention of the path breaking veteran's name, that lead me to try understanding Naushad better. Now, I say, Naushad Ali is a Master !!! I mention this because it is quite important in our study to know how MSV imbibes lessons. MSV never copies styles of his seniors, but the lesson imbibed automatically comes out at the appropriate moment, he has a composing regulator that knows when to channel what!! As it had been stated in of the write-ups, MSV learnt the art of toying with "metered" lyrics (often uninspiring lyrics and tuning unfriendly)...or set to a tune, lyrics containing the same meter.....and do that in a masterful way from Naushad. Naushad was a consummate master , a senior pro at that. MSV did it his own way, through his own inimitable sangathis and not resembling Naushad's style, but the seed was sown by the senior Master. Now, isn't that a beautiful way to digest
lessons ? In the Mega TV program, MSV stated that the "kAthal siragai" was composed in the Naushad mode...in his words "Naushad pANi". I humbly disagree here....the flow through which the soul force was imparted to the song was borrowed from a specific Naushad
number, namely "O door kE musafir humkO bhI sAth lElE" in "udan khatola" sung by the master crooner Rafi saab.
The Mridang tabla was used as the centre piece, the impetus for the flow by Naushad and MSV did the very same thing, except that the "soul" force, the soul flourish, the meat of the matter was all the handiwork of the dimunitive, die-hard fan of Naushad's. There is afterall more than a subtle difference between copying and discovering...Masters remain original.
Additionally, you would find cases where MSV lived through "how would Naushad tackle this song situation" syndrome and served aces as Naudhad would have. The PBS song (do not remember
the pallavi, incidently PBS' first song for MSV) in pAsavalai in '55-'56 is a standing testimony to this fact. No phrases copied, not a single part of the song copied from any of Naushad's numbers, but MSV chose to react the way he thought Naushad would have. Therefore, moral of the story.......Naushad's sense of aesthetics was a part of MSV's oeuvre in the
early 50s. Only a part though, as even in "paNam", "Jenovah" the blossoming composer inside him introduced the Tamil public to exquisitely orchestrated waltz and the other wordly charm of Middle Eastern arrangement and tuning, something Naushad had not ventured
into, in 1952-53.

To me it was in "puthayal", the constant communion and oneness with "that" was firmly established. Reason ? "viNNOdum mugilOdum" has the mellifluous flow and air of inevitability that we have come to associate MSV's gems with. During and after that period, MSV chose the rocket, whereas his seniors chose the elevator and his peers started using the stairway.

Additionally, on another note, MSV often used the following scale :

S R2 G2 M1 M2 P D2 N1 N2 S

a scale with M1, M2 and N1 and N2 !!!! If we considered some ragas that could be accommodated within this scale...Mohanam, HariKambhoji and therefore Valaji, Shankarabharanam and therefore Maand, Kalyani, Hamir Kalyani, Behag ....and so on.

With the typically MSV treatment, each of the raagas mentioned above would announce their presence and leave(in a single song) ....without a trace with none of them dominant as such. But with a subtle emphasis on any particular note/phrase , MSV would decorate the song with a particular raaga characteristic (note, not the raaga as such) , if he so wished. Not surprisingly, none of the songs set to the above scale displayed the same characteristics and ended up sounding different from one another. Example of songs touch with the above mentioned sequence of notes

ennuyir thoZhi - Any informed listener will vouch for its Hamir Kalyani origin because of the phrasing in the pallavi, but what about the foreign notes ?

sontham eppOthum thodar kathai thAn - No listener would compare it with the above song

The charanamS of "oru nALilE" - Again no similarities

angE varuvathu yAro - -do-

senthamizh nAttu sOlaiyilE - No similarities with any of the above songs except MSV chose to linger around Maand for a couple of lines as it was aesthetically uplifting.

Now, what do you call this composer ? Smile

Thanks for your wonderful write-up that stimulated me to share my random thoughts with all readers, only unorganized random thoughts. We could put it all together later on Smile
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sriramp



Joined: 19 Jun 2007
Posts: 68

PostPosted: Sat Jan 03, 2009 8:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nice writeup Murali and Vatsan. Good information on raaga, chords, Naushad, western...

I always wondered how MSV managed to stay on top from 50's, 60's, 70's and to most part in 80's (even though Ilayaraja was dominant, MSV still had lot of decent hits of his own style in 80's). Certainly harmonium did appear to fuse MSV's deep knowledge in carnatic, hindustani and western and there is no doubt about it. In one of the posts on MSV-TKR threads here, someone mentioned that Vaali wrote in his book that before the split, TKR used to really toil hard to master harmonium. My guess is that by 62-63 MSV-TKR have used up all the conventional raaga syle pure compositions and tunes had become difficult to come by and this made MSV to improvise; who knows if these relentless improvisations had caused the split between MSV and TKR, not agreeing on either the style or on the work involved in it. I also observed that after listening to TKR after the split, KVM (some songs) I felt that the entire song(charanam and pallavi) is of the same style (may be lacking MSV's fusion and improvisation).

Your analysis also helped me understand that why MSV's interlude are always connected to the main song and the transition was smooth and interlaced eventhough various techniques were used in the composition.

While I feel happy that I am little enlightened after these readings, I am certain that we are nowhere near in understanding the genious's brain.

This could have been one of the reasons why the purists often picked musicians like KVM for national awards etc... as they would not have completely understood MSV's improvisations to classical music or may be thought these were even detrimental to conventional wisdom.

Ragardless of what others thought as per my assumptions, these postings are definitely in a very positive direction in recognizing the work that went through the genious's mind for composing each song and I would consider your effort to analyse MSV's style itself is tribute to the master.
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madhuraman



Joined: 11 Jun 2007
Posts: 1226
Location: navimumbai

PostPosted: Sun Jan 04, 2009 6:20 am    Post subject: Pick a song and analyze Reply with quote

Dear Mr.Shankar,

We are delighted that a Scientist joins the form setting aside a little of his preoccupation for the delight of discussing MSV. Your entry is most welcome. Please feel free to express your responses having been a 50-year + fan of the legend. Though you enter only now, I presume you would certainly have observed the 'on-goings' here, as is a logical prekude for every entrant. On behalf of all fans of the legend let me say 'Have nice sessions with us'. All the best, looking forward to your postings on varied facets of MSV -a phenomenon.
Warm regards Prof.K.Raman Madurai
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Prof. K. Raman
Mumbai
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Venkat



Joined: 18 Dec 2007
Posts: 601
Location: Chennai, where MuSic liVes

PostPosted: Mon Jan 05, 2009 10:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dear Mr.Shankar,

Hearty welcome to msvtimes.com.
Already we have Professor and Doctor...Smile
Its great to have a Scientist too...Smile
Our club is binding stronger day by day... thats great...
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Meendum Santhippom Viraivil...
Regards,
Mahesh
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Damodaran Pachaiappan



Joined: 21 Oct 2007
Posts: 119
Location: Ireland

PostPosted: Tue Jan 06, 2009 3:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dear Mr.Shankar Sir,

Welcome to this wonderful world of MSVians. Your early posts have whetted my appetite for more and more writings from you.

Hoping to hear more from you,

I remain

Yours sincerely,
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Dr.Damodaran Pachaiappan
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VaidyMSV & Sriram Lax



Joined: 15 Apr 2007
Posts: 852
Location: chennai

PostPosted: Tue Jan 06, 2009 10:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

dear Mr shankar

I join many to welcome you . i am sure your Analysis , will add up further
colors .
I am really happy , not only because MSV TIMES spreading its wings fast and wide , but also well learnt people , sharing their analysis , which proves , the MASTERS tunes , capture one and all
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