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N Y MURALI
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 15, 2015 4:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mr. Sampath,
Sorry I could not answer your queries earlier as I was busy. Now I shall answer one by one.

Quote:
MY Quote:
ஆயினும் இது அவரோஹனம் என்ற ச நி த ப ம க ரி ச வுக்கு எப்படி பொருந்தும் என்ற கேள்வி எழலாம். ஒரு நிமிடம் இந்த ச நி த ப ம க ரி ச என்ற அவரோகனதை, ச ரி க ம ப த நி ச என்ற ஆரோகனமாக பாருங்கள். it is just an abstract thinking. அப்போது மேல் சா வுக்கு அடுத்து வரும் நி என்பது 'ரி' என்று கொள்ளத்தானே வேண்டும். அவ்வாறு வரும் போது இதன் தொடர்புகள்

நி-ரி
த-க
ப-ம
ம-ப
என்று வருவதை காண்பீர்கள்.அவ்வாறு வரும் போது, இடமுறையில் 5வது ஸ்வரமாக வருவது 'ம' ஆக இருக்கும். 5வது ஸ்வரம் நடு பகுதி என்ற முறையில் 'ம' என்பது வலமுறையின் ச-ப-ச என்பதற்கு equivalent. அதாவது வலமுறையில் ச-ப-ச என்றால் இடமுறையில் ச-ம-ச


Sampath asked

இது என்ன?


This is finding out swara 'ma1' in the anticlockwise motion from upper sa to lower sa with the rule cycle of 5th.

Quote:
my Quote:
அவர்கள் எவ்வாறு 'C' ஸ்வரத்தை அனுகியிருப்பார்கள்?

யாழ் வாசிப்பவர் இடமுறைபடி அதாவது anticlockwiseபடி 'C' என்ற ஸ்வரத்தை 'ப' என்பார். அதே சமயம் குழல் வசிப்பவர் வல முறைப்படி அதே 'C' என்ற ஸ்வரத்தை 'ச' என்பார்.

Sampath asked
இது எங்கு சொல்லப்பட்டுள்ளது?


This is as per Silapathigaram. The song I have already given but giving again for your benefit.

யாழில் பாலை இடமுறை மெலிய
குழலில் கோடி வலமுறை மெலிய'

Palai without any adjective indicates 'sembalai' which is Sankarabaranam. Since it is said as 'idamurai' which is anticloclwise, yazh playing it as idamurai that is anticlockwise.
Kuzhal playing 'kodipaalai' which is again sankarabaranam. And he plays valamurai which is clockwise.

The scholars who have studied Tamil pannisai have given classifications as to what are the ragas from sankarabaranam to iru madhyama thodi in both valamurai and idamurai.

Quote:
S.SAMPAT wrote:
அன்பு முரளி அவர்களே,


குழல் வாசிப்பவன் - C D E F வாசித்திருந்தால்,

யாழ் வாசிப்பவன் என்ன வாசித்திருப்பான்?

மேலும் இங்கு, C தான் ஆதார ஸ்ருதி என்று சொல்லப்பட்டுள்ளதா? இல்லை நீங்கள் கூறுகிறீர்களா?

Sampath Asked
இதற்கு உங்கள் பதில் என்ன?


if the person kuzhal plays C D E F, then the person Yazh will also play C D E F. The basic difference is for Kuzhal C D E F is sa ri2 ga2 ma1 where as for yazh it is Pa, da2, ni2 sa.

I have not considered 'C' as Aadhara shruthi. But I have already mentioned that in those Yazh string there were no minor tones and only major tones. Hence it is imperative that the yazh & kuzhal who have played the same raga that is sankarabaranam should have played only with 'C' as aathara shruthi.
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N Y MURALI
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 15, 2015 5:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dear Sampath & Vatsan,
I am giving my points about I view music.

Musical scale

I view musical scale as a Full Circle. It's value is 1.

Clockwise and Anticlockwise circles.
The above full circle is divided in to 2 semi circles.
The one in the right half is called clockwise motion and it is based on the relation of the note sa-pa with the rule of cycle of 5th.
The one in the left half is called anticlockwise motion and it is based on the relation of the note sa-ma1 with the rule of cycle of 5th but in the reverse direction.

I call these 2 semicircles as Diameters and its value is 1/2+1/2=1.

Triads or Radius
The above semi circle is further divided in to 2 half which is major and minor. For me major is clockwise and minor is anticlockwise again as per the rule of cycle of 5th. The reason being the major which is sa-ga2-pa, ga2 is 5th from sa. In the same way in the minor sa-ga1-pa, ga1 is 5th from pa in reverse directions.

So like this I get 4 quarter circles and I call triads as Radius and the value for the same is 1/4+1/4+1/4+1/4=1

7ths or Square.

Now each quarter circle is again further divided in 2 half which again creates 4 each of clockwise and anticlockwise movements so totaling to 8. I call these as squares and the value for these are 1/8+1/8+1/8+1/8+1/8+1/8+1/8+1/8=1


So this is how I can mathematically define a musical scale.

Now as I have told you in the beginning musical scale is like a circle, the edges of the circle is not smooth but like that of Gear, which has sharp and hallow edges. It is like a crust and trough.
I say that each sharp edge is a clockwise movement and each hallow edge is an anticlockwise moment.

Of course one could also see the reverse. For instance if you see the upper part of the gear you will notice that the sharp edges are pointing upwards and hollow edges pointing downwards. Where as if you see the lower part of the gear you will notice that the hollow edges are pointing upwards and the sharp edges are pointing downwards.

Musical scales are arranged like this. Within each clockwise motion you will notice an anticlockwise motion which goes on and on. God's creation is wonder.

I hope now you will understand my perception better.

Thanks.

N Y Murali
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S.SAMPAT
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 15, 2015 5:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

அன்பு முரளி அவர்களே,


யாழில் எப்படி இடமுறையாக C D E F வாசித்திருப்பார்கள்? C D E F வலமுறையாகத்தானே வாசிக்கமுடியும். C B A G தானே இடமுறை ( நான் ஒரு பேச்சுக்காக C எடுத்துக்கொண்டேன். நீங்கள் சொன்னது F)

மேலும், இடமுறை என்றால், F E D C வாசிக்க மாட்டார்களா? நீங்கள் தானே சொன்னீர்கள், யாழ் வாசிப்பவன் ஆதார ஸ்ருதி F and the range between F to F.

நீங்கள் சொல்கிறீர்கள், யாழிலும் C D E F தான் வாசிப்பார்கள். ஆனால், அது ப த2 நி2 ச. அப்படி என்றால், நான் சொல்கின்ற படி F - ஸ வாகி விட்டது. C - பா வாகி விட்டது. நான் சொல்வது தானே நடந்திருக்கிறது. இதில் வலமுறை என்ன, இடமுறை என்ன?

Quote:
அவர்கள் எவ்வாறு 'C' ஸ்வரத்தை அனுகியிருப்பார்கள்?

யாழ் வாசிப்பவர் இடமுறைபடி அதாவது anticlockwiseபடி 'C' என்ற ஸ்வரத்தை 'ப' என்பார். அதே சமயம் குழல் வசிப்பவர் வல முறைப்படி அதே 'C' என்ற ஸ்வரத்தை 'ச' என்பார்.


எப்போது, C ஸ்வரம் 'ப' ஆகும். F - ஸ வாகும் போது தானே. இங்கும் நான் சொல்லுவது தானே நடைபெறுகிறது.
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S.SAMPAT
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 15, 2015 6:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

அன்பு முரளி அவர்களே,

Why there is Circle of 5th? To find out how many major scales possible in an Octave. Right?


But, our discussion about the intervals between notes in a single scale.


Why do you get confused between these two different topics altogether?

Moreover, it is not your view about music scales. Circle of 5th (Clockwise and Anticlockwise) is already established musical theory.
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S.SAMPAT
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 15, 2015 6:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dear Murali,


Take a scale. Let us C major and give your perception of this C major scale with respect to your understanding with anticlockwise and clockwise movement.

This is what I asked you earlier. You do not make us understand what you say.. Clearly spell out with example of a scale let us say C major.


Your answers are not direct. Please be specific.
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N Y MURALI
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 15, 2015 7:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dear Mr. Sampath,
you are literally taking as playing reverse like that a avarohana which I made it very clear not so. Clockwise means Sa-pa and anticlockwise mean sa-ma1. That all. Playing is all only normally.

So when I say a yazh plays 'C' note as 'Pa' that means his adhaara shruthi is F. That is what I wrote that in the Yazh strings are arranges from F-F.

Please understand that there is a distinct difference between current carnatic music theory wherein as you clarified earlier if a mdhyama shruthi happens which s Sa-ma1 then Ms1 becomes Sa. So it is again Sa-pa only. So there is nothing called Clockwise or anticlockwise and even if there is one it is always clockwise. Right?

But not so in Pannisai Mr. Sampath. They consider the madhyama shruthi
which is Sa-ma1 and in this case the Ma1 does not become Sa. Ma1 is still Ma1 and Sa is still Sa only. But what they consider this is as Anticlockwise and consider Sa-pa as clockwise.

Why this happened is a different story which is irrelevant here.

But I shall give you the order of the scale in both clockwise and anticlockwise method as per Silapathikaaram.

Clockwise - Starting note F moving like F,G,A,B,C,D,E (Kalyani,Harikamboji,Nada bairavi, Iru madhyama thodi, Sangarabaranam, Karaharapriyaa and thodi.

Anticlockwise - Starting note C moving like C,D,E,F,G,A,B, and you can make the ragas accordingly from Sankarabaranam to irumadhyama thodi.

Is it clear.


By the regarding my views I wrote since you did not understand what I meant by anticlockwise.

I have nether read any western musical theory, nor I claimed I invented it. I only said I view it like this.


In fact all these I understood myself from Tamil Pannisai, which is at least 2000 years older than Western musical theory.

So if at all if there is any credit it should go to our Tamil forefathers. I hope you will extend that to them.

Regards,

N Y Murali
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S.SAMPAT
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 15, 2015 7:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dear Murali,

Can you sing a raga in madhya sruthi as per Pannisai like Pantuvarali without making the audience to think that it sounds like Vasantha, Kamanasrama?

Will audience think the same way as you think. Possibility is only 50:50. If that is so, then to some audience, F has become Adhara Sruthi.

Where is that book on Pannisai available? Please give the name of the book. I shall read then we will discuss.


Murali, In any root say C, the tonic , subdominent (F) and dominant (G) note are equidistant from the note C. Subdominent note F is the 5th note from the root C in Anticlockwise direction. G is the 5th note from the root in C in Clockwise directions.


There is no connection between sruthi and this above explanation has no relevance with Sruthi either Adharam or Madhyam.

Good Bye Murali. இதற்கு மேல் என்னால் முடியவில்லை. நீங்கள், உங்களுக்கு தோன்றியதை எழுதுங்கள். நீங்களாச்சு, உங்கள் அபிமான ரசிகர்களாச்சு.

இந்த விளையாட்டிற்கு நான் வரவில்லை. நான் பன்னிசை பற்றி குறை கூறவில்லை. Do not get me wrong. It is about your understanding of what is mentioned in Pannisai.

அன்புடன்
சம்பத்.
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S.SAMPAT
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 16, 2015 10:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dear Murali,

Can you sing a raga in madhya sruthi (F as Sa) as per Pannisai like Pantuvarali without making the audience to think that it sounds like Vasantha, Kamanasrama?

Will audience think the same way as you think. Possibility is only 50:50. If that is so, then to some audience, C has become Adhara Sruthi i.e. (C as Sa). Here when C becomes Sa, it sounds like Vasantha, Kamanasramam or even Suryagandham.

Murali, You could have noticed, normally when you sing Madhyama sruthi, Madhyama become Sa and Adhara sruthi becomes Pa.

But when you sing deliberately a raga in Madhyama sruthi F as Sa, some can hear it as vasantha, Kamanasramam or even Suryagandham keeping C as sudjam. Do not ask me, Sampat, are you not contradicting your own statement. NOT AT ALL. BECAUSE, ADHARA SRUTHI IS RELATIVE TERM.

AS, OUR DEAR VATSAN SAID,

Quote:
"discernment of aadhaara "Sa" in a film song (read light music) is the mother of all relative phenomena"


Where is that book on Pannisai available? Please give the name of the book. I shall read then we will discuss.


Murali, In any root say C, the tonic , subdominent (F) and dominant (G) note are equidistant from the note C. Subdominent note F is the 5th note from the root C in Anticlockwise direction. G is the 5th note from the root in C in Clockwise directions.


There is no connection between sruthi and this above explanation has no relevance with Sruthi either Adharam or Madhyam.

Good Bye Murali. இதற்கு மேல் என்னால் முடியவில்லை. நீங்கள், உங்களுக்கு தோன்றியதை எழுதுங்கள். நீங்களாச்சு, உங்கள் அபிமான ரசிகர்களாச்சு.

இந்த விளையாட்டிற்கு நான் வரவில்லை. நான் பன்னிசை பற்றி குறை கூறவில்லை. Do not get me wrong. It is about your understanding of what is mentioned in Pannisai.

அன்புடன்
சம்பத்.
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N Y MURALI
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 16, 2015 12:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dear Sampath,
Thanks for your posts. In fact I also thought that this post becomes lengthy and it should end somewhere. Since you had said that it is you 'goodbye' post I shall also make my 'goodbuy' post. That is let us stop exchanging information about this aspect. But the post can continue as along as it is addressed.

Now coming to the crux of the matter Mr. Sampath, Have you read my Part 3 in this thread completely? Or even if you have read it completely I can only assume that you had not understood what I meant.

Hence I take this opportunity to clarify for any doubt if you have. I think there is a fundamental understanding of the fact about 'anticlockwise' which creates confusion.

Now I shall give what you had written earlier in quote.

Quote:
S.SAMPAT wrote:
அன்பு முரளி அவர்களே,

வலமுறை, இடமுறை என்பது தான், Western Musicல் Circle of 5th என்பது

Clockwise - C G D A E B (வலமுறை)

Anticlockwise- C F Bb Eb Ab Db Gb (இடமுறை)


Now here is the problem. In the case of clockwise both are correct. In the case of anticlockwise both are different. I shall give what is my anticlockwise method.


Clockwise - C G D A E B (வலமுறை)
Anticlockwise - C G D A E B (இடமுறை)

This is fundamental difference between your method and my method. You would notice in your case the sequence changes with notes but the direction is the same that is clockwise. Whereas in my case the sequence remains the same but the direction changes because it is anticlockwise.

Now with this now I hope you will be in a better position to understand. So in the same Silapathikaram song when Kuzhal was playing the 'C' note as 'Sa' , the yazh was playing the note as 'Pa'. Right? But you are assuming the 'Pa' as the 5th note which is right of 'F'. But what I am telling is not on the right of 'F' but the left of 'F' which the 4th left from 'F' which is 'C' and it is 'Pa'. Now comes one question? You will say then anyway 'F' becomes 'Sa' where the adhaara shruthi changes. But Not for me. For me the adhaara shruthi is 'C' for Yazh but the note is 'pa' because it is anticlockwise. For the kuzhal the athaara shruthi is 'C' and the note name is 'Sa'.

This is exactly what happened in 'maalay pozhudhin mayakathile' where the note which was originally 'sa' was played as 'pa' in the reverse direction. I am also telling you that the original version of 'maalai pozhudin' was played with 'F' minor in a C scale. So as per me it is Anticlockwise. So when the player played the note 'pa' I said he played in the reverse direction which is clockwise direction but the raga remained the same.

Now some where down the line either we agree or disagree. Or we agree to disagree.

Now since I have raised this whole subject and dragged you in spite of warning form one of our friend, it is my duty to relieve you from this discussion in the same condition as you came in.

Now let me give me an example how I see a clockwise and anticlockwise movement.

Please don't drag me for a concert for singing. You are a professional exponent. I am a layman but having interest in music. So that is our common interest.

Now let us take the case of 'maharahan ulagai'. What you say is if the song gets shifted in madhyama shruthi which we take the example of C to F. Now in your case the adthaara shruthi shifts from C to F. That is the 'Sa' which was in C earlier now shifts to 'F'. Right.

But in my case the adhaara shruthi still remains the same at C but the name of the note changes from 'Sa' to 'Pa'.

Is it crystal clear Mr. Sampath?

Now comes the next challenge. Now is the both melody are one and the same. It depends on the mood of the listener as to where he keeps his adhaara shruthi. He may keep either at 'C' or 'F'. If he keeps it in 'C' he feels the shade of Karahapriya again. But what I say is I say he hears that in the anticlockwise motion which he may not even notice. But if the same person keeps the adhaara shruthi to 'F' then he will feel it like Harikamboji but he may think it is still Karaharaoriyaa and the chances are 50/50 is what you claim. May be. It is purely depends on the listeners choice as to how he visualizes a melody.

But in my case of Anticlockwise I say I am hearing the Karaharapiryaa only but in anticlockwise motion. Now I need to prove this.

Now let us take an example.

Take the chord Sa-ga2-pa. Now this is in clockwise motion, that is Panjama shruthi. Now change this to madhyama shruthi which is anticlockwise direction. Now you will say it is Ma1-da2-sa. But I will say it is Sa-da1-Ma1. On the outlook both seems to be same because you are looking at the same direction which is clockwise. Whereas I look at it differently because the earlier case was clockwise for me and the changed case is anticlockwise for me.

Now how do I prove this. In practical terms I can say as I said in my post Part 3, one has to change the shruthi from Sa-pa to Sa-ma and play in the same direction. That is it. Simple.

But is both Ma1-da2-sa which is your case and Sa-da2-Ma1 which is my case are same. You may believe this same because you take it in the same direction that is Clockwise. Whereas I am taking it in the opposite direction.

So all I can say is that I can't prove musically because this is based on one's mental condition but I can surely prove with Mathematics.

If you want we may do that in any future sitting.

I shall prove that in your case in both the case that is sa-ga2-pa as well as ma1-da2-sa you will get Right Angle Triangle since you has shifted the adhaara shruthi or the root note which is the first note from Sa to Ma1. And you are looking at clockwise direction.

But you will notice in my case that in the case of Sa-ga2-pa I will get Right Angle Triangle in clockwise direction. But when I changed it to Sa-da2-ma1 in the anticlockwise direction I will show that I don't get a right angle triangle but an equilateral triangle.

Is tight angle triangle and equilateral triangle or the same? No definitely not. It is different. Hence I feel the same raga but with a different feel because its direction is changed.

So thanks Sampath for participating in this long and ordeal exchange of ideas. I enjoyed.

But before I conclude a small remark Mr. Sampath. Please not that I have no specific rasigas and I myself a great rasiga of MSV. It is because of the experience of listening to his music a layman who do not even study music either practically or in theory have come thus far.

And I have no intention of hurting any body. As I said I only wanted to share my listening experience with our friends. What I request from them is only a freedom of expression. Let people argue with me in my perception like yourselves which is healthy and it gives me opportunity to learn more. Let them not encourage me. But they should not discourage me. Because that closes the creative thinking.


Thanks.


N Y Murali
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 16, 2015 12:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

MURALI QUOTES





Quote:
Now comes the next challenge. Now is the both melody are one and the same. It depends on the mood of the listener as to where he keeps his adhaara shruthi. He may keep either at 'C' or 'F'. If he keeps it in 'C' he feels the shade of Karahapriya again.


So all I can say is that I can't prove musically because this is based on one's mental condition but I can surely prove with Mathematics.


Hence I feel the same raga but with a different feel because its direction is changed.


இதைத்தான், நான் முதல்லேயிருந்து சொல்லிக்கொண்டிருக்கிறேன். It is MENTAL CONDITIONING.. இப்போதாவது நான் சொல்வதை புரிந்து கொண்டீர்களே. நன்றி.

இசை THEORY PRACTICAL APPROACHஆக இருக்கவேண்டும். அப்படி இல்லையென்றால், அதானல் என்ன ப்ரயோசனம். அது WASTE இல்லையா? இசை மனது சம்பந்தப்பட்ட விஷயம் முரளி.

நன்றி. வணக்கம்
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 16, 2015 1:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

S.SAMPAT wrote:
MURALI QUOTES





Quote:
Now comes the next challenge. Now is the both melody are one and the same. It depends on the mood of the listener as to where he keeps his adhaara shruthi. He may keep either at 'C' or 'F'. If he keeps it in 'C' he feels the shade of Karahapriya again.


So all I can say is that I can't prove musically because this is based on one's mental condition but I can surely prove with Mathematics.


Hence I feel the same raga but with a different feel because its direction is changed.


இதைத்தான், நான் முதல்லேயிருந்து சொல்லிக்கொண்டிருக்கிறேன். It is MENTAL CONDITIONING.. இப்போதாவது நான் சொல்வதை புரிந்து கொண்டீர்களே. நன்றி.

இசை THEORY PRACTICAL APPROACHஆக இருக்கவேண்டும். அப்படி இல்லையென்றால், அதானல் என்ன ப்ரயோசனம். அது WASTE இல்லையா? இசை மனது சம்பந்தப்பட்ட விஷயம் முரளி.

நன்றி. வணக்கம்



Thanks Mr. Sampath. I do agree that a theory has to be of a practical use or otherwise it will be 'mona mona' subject. But what a theory which is not useful now could have been used in the past. We really don't know.

We may not know as to why in Pannisai times they had this theory. It could be then useful because as I said earlier it could have been due to the situation where they had only 7 white keys and no black keys at all. Even in that account there is a disagreement. Some say they have and some say they do not have. But I believe they had only 7 major tones only and not minor tones at all. Just imagine a situation where in you have only white keys in your keyboard with no black keys and how will you find out which one is C and which one if 'F'. Based on the relations only. That is why they came out with Circles, Semi-circles, Trainagles, Squares.

Even now you may find in North India that the harmonium that are used are F to F, whereas in the South it is C to C.

The same condition prevailed even during Silapathigarams time. There were 2 different yazhs one was called as Sagosha Yazh(the sanskrit name itself suggest that it came from north) which was F to F and Senkotti Yazh(the name itself suggests that it is from Tamils) which was C to C. Usage of both could have made them to come to that theory in order to differentiate between two.

But now having the technology we have major and minor tones in our keyboard. So the theory would have gone out of use.

But one thing is sure for me. Whether this theory is applicable then or now, it has helped me to connect well with the composer MSV. Remember MSV used to say that "Music should represent a scene'. Scientifically it means that sound waves can be visualized in terms light waves and one could clearly see a picture. So I am able to see the picture in which, I see only an equilateral triangle rather than a right angle triangle. And I am also able to relate with him why I am seeing an equilateral triangle especially for the song 'Ullathil nalla ullam'.

But if others see it as right angle triangle I just can't help. After all the world itself is unequal.



Thanks.

Happy that our discussion ended on a positive note.


Last edited by N Y MURALI on Tue Mar 17, 2015 7:20 pm; edited 1 time in total
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 16, 2015 2:00 pm    Post subject: IGNORANCE IS BLISS Reply with quote

Dear All,

Apppppppppa. What a relief??? Something that I understood atlast. Yes, I have this video of Kalyan (Hello, Kalyan & not Kalyani!!) playing Maalai Pozhuthin Mayakkathiley but in the form of a full DVD. Sampath, will show you when we meet next time. You may all see this & come to a further continuation (not conclusion, please note!). That reminds me of a great experience....

IGNORANCE IS BLISS!!!!

CHEERS

MSV IS MUSIC!!!

VAIDYMSV


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 16, 2015 2:12 pm    Post subject: RVS MANI'S TAKE.... Reply with quote

Dear All,

"RVS Mani has the following doubt. He wants to listen to good melodies of MSV and while searching msvtimes.com he stumbled upon Ariyakudi Vs Semmangudi" debate fiercely fought over.

Above post dictated by RVS Mani & typed verbatim, posted by me.

RVS MANI...

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PostPosted: Mon Mar 16, 2015 2:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bliss will be the one which will be sought after by every one even if it is at the expense of ignorance somtimes.


But Nonsense is never sought after.
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 16, 2015 3:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dear All,

Sorry to disturb you again. There is a problem. There is a...... real problem. Now there is another monkey on my head. Can anybody clarify? That is.... That is.......Between myself and Mr. Sampath, who is adhaara shruthi 'Sa' and who is adhaara shruthi 'Ma1'.

If you cannot understand I shall put the question anticlockwise. Between two of us who is Ariyakudi and who is Semmangudi?

If you know the answer Please let me know. I don't have an answer for this. But I can prove it with Geography
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