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Naan pesa ninaipadhellam nee pesa vendum - Paalum pazamum
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Srinivass NV
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Joined: 12 Feb 2007
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 17, 2007 8:27 pm    Post subject: Posting by Mrs.Sharadha Reply with quote

Dear Sister,
Your message appears in Strange ASCII Characters when viewed in my PC. Probably a Font issue... Could you please let me know the Font you have used for posting the Message?

Thank you very much

Affectionately,

NVS
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S.SAMPAT
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 18, 2007 12:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dear NVS,

I appreciate your sense of music. Normally, probably because of my association with my guru Sri.TNS and other musicians, I prefer to say that most of the film songs are predominantly based on the scale of the Ragas rather than the Raga itself for the characteristics gamakas are either absent or sparingly used except for very few old songs. It is quite understandable that the film composition is bound to enjoy such kind of liberty.

Though I appreciate ur views, why I consider this paritcular song suggestive of Kapi Scale is because of the following reasons.

In Uravaada Vendum (PS) , Uravada (Ri2 Ma1 Ga1 Ri) Vendum (Saarisaa Saa Ni2 Dha2 Pa) swaras are coming and in Uravaada Ma1 is very much distinct and evident. More over the prayoga Ri2 Ma1 Ga1 Ri2 is also suggestive of Kapi Scale (Kindly listen to Flute Mali Sir).

In Naan Kaanum Ulagangal Nee Kaana vendum (Ga2 is used as u said), as u said , the landing note of Dum of Vendum itself is Ma1 and it is very much distinct.

Hence the swaras of Hindustani Kapi Scale like Mandhayam, Kaakali Nishadham and Anthra Gandharam are coming in this song.

In Siva Ranjani, even the use of Ga2 will make it as Misra Siva Ranjani and Madhyam and Nishadhams are totally absent.

In "Senthamil Thaen Mozhiyazl" the characteristics gamakas of Kapi may be missing, still I prefer to call it as Kapi Scale because of the swaras and sancharas.

Hope u agree with my reasoning. If I am wrong please let me know. I am willing to stand corrected. Again , if u want to classify the scale based on the mood of the song rather than the notes of the Scale then I am with u.

The arohanam and avaroham of Piloo is as follows

Ni2 Sa - Ga2 Ma Pa - Ni2 Dha2 Pa - Sa

Sa Ni2 Dha2 Pa - Dha1 Pa Ma1 Ga1 Ri2 Ni2 Sa

Both Gas/Dhas/Nis are used like Kapi. Sangati Pa Ga1 is frequently used.

As far as the raga Siva Ranjani is concerned the chords that may be used are as follows

Cm / Cm6 / G4

In sancharas with dominance of Dha2 , chord Cm6 may be used.

In sancharas with dominance of Ri2 and with absence of Ga1/Ga2,

the chord G4 (GCD) may be used

Hope I have clarified.

Regards

Awaiting your reply

Sampat
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P. Sankar
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Joined: 03 Feb 2007
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 18, 2007 1:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nice to read a lot about music itself.
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P. Sankar
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 18, 2007 2:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dear all,

This is the favourite duet song of mine on any given day. The film "Paalum Pazhamum" was released much before I was born. But having watched the film and the song for so many times Shivaji and Sarojidevi singing this song remain my dream Ideal couple.

A newly married husband takes his wife for a short outing and asks with great affection to her, "You have not asked anything for yourself after marriage. Ask anything today and I will get it for you?". She politely refuses saying she is leading a happy life and nothing more she wants. When her husband insists again, the beautiful melodious music starts and she beautifully comes with the line, "Naan pesa ninaipathellam nee pesa vendum, naallodum pozhuthodum uravada vendum". What a dignity expressed in the highly romantic situation. You can visibly see the love, affection, and care in the eyes of both the actors. They have lived as the characters in the song. Particularly you should see the expression of Shivaji when he gently nods his head singing Mmmmmmmm, Mmmmmmmm. I am told when this movie was remade in hindi the music director of the film, Naushad had remarked, "I can not produce the kind of melody which is found in the Tamil version." This film was a turnaround in the career of MSV, I believe.

When I think of this song, a question usually that come in my mind is, "Is this the situation created for the lyrics of Kannadasan or has Kaviarasar penned these lyrics for the situation?". Can somebody get the answer for this question of mine?

P. Sankar.
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irenehastings
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 18, 2007 5:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

wow... what an analysis about the song 'naan pesa ninaipathellam'

i think this song is fully covered here in all aspects like story, action, lyrics, musical notes, raga analysis along with some additional informations also about the greatness of kaviyarasu kannadasan.

this song is deserve for it.

thanks to all, who poured their wonderful writings.
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Srinivass NV
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Joined: 12 Feb 2007
Posts: 86
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 18, 2007 8:56 pm    Post subject: Dear Sampat Reply with quote

Dear Sampat,
Crystal Clear presentation of your views. I am so happy and thankful for the depth of your analysis which is a great tribute to the Greatest Legend. I am happier to feel that I am also participating in this process.

Now, firstly, thank u for the details on the Chord applications which had cleared my ambiguities.

Secondly, I prefer to apologize, I still would Vote for Siva Ranjani…and my preference is again based on the following Significant Factors :
1. If it would be correct to classify the Quality or Nature of a Person just based on the Grammar of his Birth (Birth Religion, Birth Caste, Birth Region, Mother Tongue…etc.), then I would also agree, classifying the Raga of a Melody just by the Grammar (Notations which appear in the melody) is also correct. NB : Especially even if the notations fail to sound the basic Fragnance of the Raga.

Alternately, if it would be right to classify the Quality or Nature of a Person by the Character he Displays irrespective of his Birth Grammar, then I would say, it would also be right to go by the Fragnance (Mood) the Melody displays, in order to identify it with a Raga.

To me, there is abundance of Siva Ranjani and deceivingly few traces of Kapi in the Song “Naan Paesa Ninaippadhellaam”. Hence I am still inclined to believe the most Sounding Raga behind this Melody is Siva Ranjani.

2. If this song would have been composed by any other Music Director, I would even have a better chance to go by Grammar because, it is obvious that the others can never violate the Grammar without sounding disharmonious. Since this is none other than the Greatest MSV, I personally feel the benefit of doubt goes in favour of Siva Ranjani as the Raga, although it sounds high, is obviously, Harmoniously diluted due to the presence other Notations. And…this is not new to the Legend.

Having said this, I respect your stand which is not wrong either, if one prefers to go only by the Grammar, wherein I agree, the Song carries comparitively more notations of Kapi than SivaRanjani.

Sampat, I am eager to see the Chord analysis done for this Song. Should you require the Song, pls give me your email ID. I would mail it to you.

Also, I have requested you to confirm if the Song “Paar Magalae Paar” is a Pathos in Kalyani or something else?

With Love

NVS
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Srinivass NV
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 18, 2007 9:16 pm    Post subject: Dear Sankar, Reply with quote

Dear Sankar.P,
The following could be a possible clue to the answer for your question :

Very rarely, one can come across Songs by "Kannadasan-MSV" where the Sandham (Meter) is strikingly the same throughout the length of the whole Song.
This means, one can sing the whole song only with the first Lyric line of the Pallavi. Try singing this song only with Naan Paesa Ninaippadhellaam (Or only with any Line of the Song)

To my knowledge, this is one of the song like that!!...

(Another similar example is the Song : Paalum Pazhamum Kaigalil Eandhi)

To me, it appears more likely that the Song is Written first because, it is natural for a Poet to follow the same Sandham throughout (If he is a Poet in Genuine terminology!!!). Invariably, if the tune is made first, the Sandham for the Pallavi and the Sandham for the Saranams are mostly different.

With Love,

NVS
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S.SAMPAT
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 18, 2007 11:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dear NVS,

Thank u very much for the reply. I respect ur sentiments. All these years, as I have been identifying ragas keeping the grammar in mind, I have a bent of mind inclined to the structure of the scale. For e-g, To differentiate between more similar ragas like Darbar and Nayaki - Sama/Arabhi/Deva Kandari - Mukari/Bhairavi, we use to rely only on grammar.

More than that our carnatic music is so sophisticated that even an addition/ deletion of a single swara will give life to a different raga. E-g Sriranjani with omission of Pa from Kharaharapriya. Further Abhogi with omission Ni from Sriranjani. That is why I rely more on grammar.

Further, as I consider MSV himself as a great Carnatic Musician, I used to enjoy how the scale of ragas of Karnatic Music are given a creative touch in the hands this genius with minor variations here and there. That is also one of the reasons why I rely on grammar. Hope u understand my intrinsic feelings. Kindly do not think otherwise.

If u could send the song I will be much obliged. My email ID is
harsat9503@gmail.com

I once again respect ur aesthetic sense of music.

Thank u very much.

regards
Sampat
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Srinivass NV
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 19, 2007 7:52 am    Post subject: Dear Sampat Reply with quote

I think there are two technically meaningful points of views for the same aspect and we can conclude as such. It would be ideal for the individual to decide which way to see, case to case.

I truly enjoyed this exchange... Hope I would not have bored you or the Forum. I thank this Forum for the opportunity.

I am sending the Song to you by Email

With Love

NVS
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S.SAMPAT
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 19, 2007 8:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dear NVS,

I thoroughly enjoyed this exchange and neither of us would have bored the forum, I hope, for it was totally meaningful. Even I feel these kind of healthy exchange is a must to enrich our knowledge. As u said, we would conclude with us.

Please send the song. Regarding "Paar Magalae Paar" I ll let u know in couple of days as I am little busy on the official front. Is it OK?

regards
Sampat
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Srinivass NV
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 19, 2007 12:49 pm    Post subject: Ok Reply with quote

Dear Sampat,
Yes, Thank you very much.

I have already sent the song to you

With Love

NVS
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S.SAMPAT
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 19, 2007 8:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dear NVS,

Yes u r right. Paar Magalae Paar is on Kalyani Scale with foreign note Ni1 and Ma1(Ma1 appears in Karughuvadhai). Safely you can say it is Yaman. (Probably misra yaman because of foreign notes??).

Thank u very much for the song u have sent. I am yet to download it.

regards.
Sampat
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Srinivass NV
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Joined: 12 Feb 2007
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Location: Hosur

PostPosted: Mon Feb 19, 2007 9:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dear Sampat,
Thank you

With Love

NVS
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